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hope everybody's doing well today

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we have another great guest

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who i will introduce in one minute and

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i'm really excited about this show if

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you watched unidentified season 1

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it was the triangle episode

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and

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one of the one of the witnesses was

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michael vi and i'm gonna bring michael

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in right now

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michael thank you so much for being here

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excited to do this with you hi joe

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glad to be here

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so

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let's take us back to

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how you got into the navy and your

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background

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start out with that

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all right so i when i originally joined

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the navy i was going to go try to apply

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for officer candidate school i was in my

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fifth year of college

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so i went and i took a um

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i went to the mep center

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and there's a short version of this so

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i'll give you the reader's digest

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version i still had two quarters of the

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times before semester systems

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and

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so i went in on delayed enlistment which

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gives you a year from the day you sign

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before you have to show up in the navy

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because i hadn't graduated college yet i

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couldn't be an officer so i needed to

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graduate from college first that was the

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plan and then try for ocs

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i didn't consult any i had no friends or

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family in the military and i didn't

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consult anybody

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i guess i had top gun favor or what have

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you but

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about two weeks after talking to the

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navy recruiter he calls me i'm already

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back in college

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and he says the seat that we've signed

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for you is going away basically in a

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short story he he lied to me

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he lied to me it's common

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the recruiter lied to me

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i believed

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pretty much everything you said

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and basically said if you want this you

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need to come on in now

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so

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that's what i did and to part of that

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was taking this defense language

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aptitude battery it's a language it's a

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it's a test with a fictitious language

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to test your language learning skills

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it lasts about four hours long it used

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to i don't know what it's called now and

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uh literally through half halfway

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through it i got kind of started second

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just second guessing my decision

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and i literally started started

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answering the questions randomly just

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going down the answer sheet

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marking the letters turned it in

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and apparently scored in the 90s and

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they made a really big deal out of it i

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mean just talk about blind luck right as

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well just shooting craps just random

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right you had no you just went boop you

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wanted to get out of it you were done

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with it you just and you got a 90. not

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even reading the questions and it wasn't

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just questions you're also listening to

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there's this huge

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book full of these audio tapes and it's

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a fictitious language

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and you're looking at you're listening

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to the audio tapes you're looking at

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pictures and you're seeing the written

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word and you've got a multiple choice

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decide what it's saying and it's a

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progressive thing so it starts you off

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kind of basic and it gets harder as you

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go through the test nonetheless i

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thought i scored okay he said he they

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made a big deal out of this said things

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to me like

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man you can be a spy

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and uh

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and it sounded intriguing well

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what was your impression of a spy at

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that point

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well like anybody else's when you're you

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know in your early twenties uh james

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bond movies right stuff like that

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uh and this was all taking place in

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knoxville tennessee i played football at

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the university of tennessee which had

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been one of the reasons why i didn't

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focus like i should have on my grades

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and i just took the minimum amount of

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hours just to remain eligible for the

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football program

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uh and and so at the end of four years i

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was a sort of a professional student and

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still hadn't graduated i was on the five

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year plan literally

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the bottom line was

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i believed everything the recruiter said

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i stopped college at that point right

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there

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and i had to go to boot camp

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after with five years of college under

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my belt there i am in boot camp with all

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these

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uh snot-nosed kids as people used to say

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boot camp is eight weeks past that

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flying colors and and and the a school

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or the main training school for a

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linguist in any of the services is in

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one of the most beautiful places in the

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world it's monterey california at the

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defense language institute

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so i don't know how many languages they

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teach there it's probably

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87 to 100 plus

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uh all levels they teach basic all the

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way to fluent and beyond fluent like you

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know a scholastic or

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professorial level so you could talk

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really technically in that language

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whatever you're studying

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and uh so so i get the interesting thing

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was you know i i ran through that test

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at the recruiting center really quickly

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just randomly answering it and scored a

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90-something

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well when i get to monterey

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and i'm waiting to be told what what

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courses are available to me

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i'm sitting around all these other young

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kids just graduated from high school

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fresh out of boot camp

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and i hear they're talking about scores

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of 133 142

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and i'm thinking god you guys are full

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of it you know everybody just everybody

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knows tests are graded on 100 scale well

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i was wrong

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apparently that test was rated on 150

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point scale

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so i didn't get if you score high enough

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you get your choice of languages or

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they're going to assign you to the

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critical languages which are your

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persian farsi arabic uh probably like

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one of

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many many arabic dialects

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chinese

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vietnamese russian

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those are the big ones that take the

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longest number of months to to teach uh

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to an individual and which what year is

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this right now 1988 88 okay a year

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before bob lazar came out

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so uh

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anyway i find out that i didn't score so

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well after just sort of randomly making

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it through that test

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and i got assigned instead of being able

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to pick i got assigned as a persian

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farsi

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linguist

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and at first i was i was uh

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disheartened i was already bummed out

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from everything i just explained

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here i was with all these 18 19 year old

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kids

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and uh but then i got to thinking

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i i had wanted to major in petroleum

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engineering

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when i started out in college

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so i thought you know this whole the

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ayatollahs they won't be around forever

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we'll pretty quickly be back in iran one

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of these days

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they'll moderate they'll get rid of

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these ayatollahs and they'll open back

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up and i will have a language skill that

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will be of high value and i can go to

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work for exxon or bp or shell or whoever

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and and speak the language and and be

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successful it suddenly became a life

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plan

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but once you get into language training

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uh it's 67 weeks it's total immersion

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you have to you test out the first day

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in order to go to lunch you can't go to

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lunch until you test out this is on day

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one of the class you have to memorize

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the alphabet there's probably

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15 people in the class

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one by one we go in and from these

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instructors we repeat the alphabet after

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having memorized it and from there

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you're off and running

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and it's uh

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and if you can't repeat the alphabet you

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can't eat

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well you're going to keep trying until

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you pass it so there's like 32

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26 letters in our alphabet there's 32 in

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farsi i think arabic's about the same

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but

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you do most everybody i think got

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through the alphabet we all got to go to

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lunch some later than others

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but then after that you're not allowed

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to speak english the first sentence they

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teach you

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is how to ask in farsi

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if you can please speak in english

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because english is the only thing you

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learn

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so far at that point

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aside from the alphabet

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so they teach you how to ask formally if

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you can switch to english

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which makes it easier but you have to

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speak in the language and they start you

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from i don't know what you'd call it

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maybe like elementary school level

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and then you go

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throughout maybe six months you're like

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at middle school level

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and then after maybe nine months you're

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maybe at a

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junior high school level

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then you get the point right and then

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it's on a it's on a it's on a level

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system as far as the

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language and all of that and there's

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follow-on training

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but but the way that is related to the

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navy and what i was doing in at the time

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of my sighting

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is i was fulfilling a job role in the

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navy

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that is similar to job roles in the

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other services and in the intelligence

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agencies which is a linguist

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the navy calls theirs cryptologic

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technicians

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it's cryptologic because you're

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you're dealing with cryptology you're

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working out of an office in at the

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cryptology capital of the world which is

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the national security agency at fort

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meade

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it's where

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all of the all of the services like the

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navy have their cryptologic technicians

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working

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shoulder to shoulder in some cases with

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nsa civilians at fort meade maryland so

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all of the cryptology technician

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linguists and the other cryptologic

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technicians so you've got linguists

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you've got radar and signals experts

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that are cryptologic technicians

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they're all

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at one point or another going to be at

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fort meade

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and from there let me just interrupt

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just one quick thing that luis elizondo

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described

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that job saying

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this is probably one of the more highly

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trained individuals that the united

284
00:09:44,389 --> 00:09:42,240
states military and the intelligence

285
00:09:47,190 --> 00:09:44,399
community has for all intents and

286
00:09:51,750 --> 00:09:47,200
purposes this gentleman is a spy on the

287
00:09:52,870 --> 00:09:51,760
combat field that's accurate right

288
00:09:55,030 --> 00:09:52,880
he wasn't

289
00:09:56,949 --> 00:09:55,040
inaccurate

290
00:09:59,590 --> 00:09:56,959
i just don't like using that word

291
00:10:01,509 --> 00:09:59,600
right um because and we should probably

292
00:10:04,470 --> 00:10:01,519
put the caveat out right here you know i

293
00:10:05,750 --> 00:10:04,480
still am employed i'm still using my my

294
00:10:08,069 --> 00:10:05,760
credentials

295
00:10:10,310 --> 00:10:08,079
i still have to watch what i what we

296
00:10:13,430 --> 00:10:10,320
talk about here

297
00:10:14,550 --> 00:10:13,440
to protect my my livelihood and to also

298
00:10:16,230 --> 00:10:14,560
not

299
00:10:18,470 --> 00:10:16,240
make myself vulnerable to people who

300
00:10:19,750 --> 00:10:18,480
maybe would be interested in from other

301
00:10:22,470 --> 00:10:19,760
countries and finding out where people

302
00:10:23,509 --> 00:10:22,480
like me live so um

303
00:10:25,670 --> 00:10:23,519
anyway

304
00:10:26,710 --> 00:10:25,680
uh

305
00:10:27,750 --> 00:10:26,720
the

306
00:10:32,389 --> 00:10:27,760
uh

307
00:10:34,069 --> 00:10:32,399
so yeah take us to 90 to 92. yeah so

308
00:10:36,389 --> 00:10:34,079
linguist uh

309
00:10:37,350 --> 00:10:36,399
so let me back up to something lou said

310
00:10:39,430 --> 00:10:37,360
okay

311
00:10:41,990 --> 00:10:39,440
the training is so intensive it's this

312
00:10:44,230 --> 00:10:42,000
it's this almost year and a half uh

313
00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:44,240
almost two years for me because uh

314
00:10:47,829 --> 00:10:46,240
i got rolled back from getting sick but

315
00:10:49,990 --> 00:10:47,839
two years basically for me for language

316
00:10:52,150 --> 00:10:50,000
training then you've got your follow-on

317
00:10:53,030 --> 00:10:52,160
schools that teach you how to use that

318
00:10:54,389 --> 00:10:53,040
stuff

319
00:10:56,069 --> 00:10:54,399
on the equipment

320
00:10:58,470 --> 00:10:56,079
and then i went to uh went to flight

321
00:11:00,389 --> 00:10:58,480
school at naval air station pensacola

322
00:11:03,430 --> 00:11:00,399
same flight school the pilots go to

323
00:11:05,269 --> 00:11:03,440
there were pilots in my in my class

324
00:11:06,710 --> 00:11:05,279
and from there you go to survival school

325
00:11:08,150 --> 00:11:06,720
that i show up to fort made and then i

326
00:11:09,910 --> 00:11:08,160
go out on my first deployment and so

327
00:11:11,350 --> 00:11:09,920
you're out in my case i was a persian

328
00:11:13,430 --> 00:11:11,360
linguist that means i'm going to go to

329
00:11:14,470 --> 00:11:13,440
the persian gulf

330
00:11:15,990 --> 00:11:14,480
so

331
00:11:17,670 --> 00:11:16,000
uh linguists

332
00:11:19,829 --> 00:11:17,680
in the persian gulf

333
00:11:21,910 --> 00:11:19,839
they're they could typically be in one

334
00:11:22,949 --> 00:11:21,920
of two places most the time

335
00:11:25,509 --> 00:11:22,959
more than likely they're going to be

336
00:11:28,230 --> 00:11:25,519
aboard a ship

337
00:11:30,470 --> 00:11:28,240
doing their job supporting the fleet or

338
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:30,480
they could be in my case

339
00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:32,560
flying off of an aircraft carrier back

340
00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:34,800
in that time nowadays it's a little bit

341
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:37,600
different but at the time i was flying i

342
00:11:41,350 --> 00:11:39,360
had flown during the gulf war

343
00:11:43,829 --> 00:11:41,360
had like over 300 combat flight hours

344
00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:43,839
during the gulf war

345
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:45,360
this was just after the gulf war this

346
00:11:48,710 --> 00:11:47,040
was in 1992

347
00:11:50,949 --> 00:11:48,720
and i was out on what was going to be my

348
00:11:53,430 --> 00:11:50,959
last deployment

349
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:53,440
and essentially you're just a hot body

350
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:54,880
and so you get into the theater

351
00:11:59,190 --> 00:11:57,839
somewhere in my case it was it was in

352
00:12:01,829 --> 00:11:59,200
dubai

353
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:01,839
and you hang out in a hotel waiting on a

354
00:12:04,790 --> 00:12:03,440
ship that needs you

355
00:12:06,949 --> 00:12:04,800
because they don't like to go into the

356
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:06,959
persian gulf or come out of it when they

357
00:12:10,629 --> 00:12:08,399
go through and come out they're going

358
00:12:12,629 --> 00:12:10,639
through this narrow straight

359
00:12:13,430 --> 00:12:12,639
the strait of hormuz you could literally

360
00:12:15,509 --> 00:12:13,440
look

361
00:12:17,829 --> 00:12:15,519
and see the shore on both sides

362
00:12:20,150 --> 00:12:17,839
very constrained you got bad guys on one

363
00:12:22,470 --> 00:12:20,160
side the iranians and you got the omanis

364
00:12:24,310 --> 00:12:22,480
on the other and they the fleet likes

365
00:12:25,509 --> 00:12:24,320
having linguist support on board the

366
00:12:26,710 --> 00:12:25,519
ship

367
00:12:28,310 --> 00:12:26,720
so you can

368
00:12:30,629 --> 00:12:28,320
let them know

369
00:12:32,550 --> 00:12:30,639
what's called indications and warning so

370
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:32,560
you can provide indications and warning

371
00:12:37,829 --> 00:12:35,040
to the skipper or the fleet

372
00:12:39,910 --> 00:12:37,839
if these knuckleheads over here

373
00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:39,920
are gonna try to launch a silkworm

374
00:12:43,269 --> 00:12:41,760
missile and sink your ship

375
00:12:45,269 --> 00:12:43,279
or whatever right so you're there to

376
00:12:47,110 --> 00:12:45,279
support the fleet

377
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:47,120
but you hang out waiting on your ship in

378
00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:49,279
my case my ship wasn't there yet it had

379
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:51,440
sailed for my guest norfolk

380
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:54,720
and uh when it got close they put me on

381
00:12:58,069 --> 00:12:57,040
a helo and i halo out to the ship

382
00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:58,079
and so

383
00:13:02,870 --> 00:13:00,480
on a particular day of the sighting

384
00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:02,880
i was on the uss mobile bay

385
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:05,120
which if people uh

386
00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:07,120
are familiar with the

387
00:13:11,350 --> 00:13:10,000
uh the nimitz incident in 2004

388
00:13:13,509 --> 00:13:11,360
the mobile bay

389
00:13:15,269 --> 00:13:13,519
although it has the same kind of radar

390
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:15,279
it's an aegis cruiser

391
00:13:19,509 --> 00:13:17,519
so in 1992

392
00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:19,519
the aegis cruiser the mobile bay was in

393
00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:22,320
the persian gulf we were supporting the

394
00:13:25,829 --> 00:13:24,079
carrier battle group and it was the uss

395
00:13:27,670 --> 00:13:25,839
independence

396
00:13:28,949 --> 00:13:27,680
and on this day

397
00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:28,959
our ship

398
00:13:32,710 --> 00:13:30,800
was right beside by the way joe can you

399
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:32,720
go to this simultaneous screen it's a

400
00:13:38,310 --> 00:13:36,320
little bit it's it's affecting uh yeah

401
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:38,320
no problem if that's easier for you it's

402
00:13:42,150 --> 00:13:39,760
it's easier for me

403
00:13:43,509 --> 00:13:42,160
okay so we're uh we're right beside and

404
00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:43,519
if you want to google this to get a

405
00:13:46,790 --> 00:13:45,040
picture to show people there's probably

406
00:13:48,310 --> 00:13:46,800
two things will be helpful we're doing

407
00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:48,320
something with the aircraft carrier next

408
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:50,800
to us it's called underway replenishment

409
00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:53,040
it's when the two ships come up side to

410
00:13:57,189 --> 00:13:54,880
side

411
00:13:59,350 --> 00:13:57,199
and they're literally like 100 to 150

412
00:14:02,310 --> 00:13:59,360
feet from one another cruising at about

413
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:02,320
i don't know 12 to 15 knots you could

414
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:04,720
literally throw a baseball

415
00:14:08,550 --> 00:14:06,959
from the deck of one to the other you're

416
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:08,560
really close

417
00:14:12,150 --> 00:14:10,079
and they

418
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:12,160
connect these lines and hoses they fire

419
00:14:15,509 --> 00:14:14,240
them across with this dummy round from a

420
00:14:17,269 --> 00:14:15,519
rifle

421
00:14:19,590 --> 00:14:17,279
sends a leader across they grab the

422
00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:19,600
leader they they tie that then they then

423
00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:22,240
they bring across bigger lines then to

424
00:14:26,870 --> 00:14:24,720
that they'll attach hoses

425
00:14:29,590 --> 00:14:26,880
or big winches and cables and they might

426
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:29,600
transfer goods right like whether it's

427
00:14:34,470 --> 00:14:32,399
ammunition on crates or people they can

428
00:14:36,710 --> 00:14:34,480
take a basket this passenger basket and

429
00:14:38,629 --> 00:14:36,720
they can hoist you across the waves from

430
00:14:41,189 --> 00:14:38,639
one ship to the other they've been doing

431
00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:41,199
it since the navy's been a thing

432
00:14:45,350 --> 00:14:43,040
doing underway replenishment underway

433
00:14:47,509 --> 00:14:45,360
transfer

434
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:47,519
and so we were side by side with the uss

435
00:14:52,470 --> 00:14:48,959
independence

436
00:14:54,310 --> 00:14:52,480
and because of my there you go

437
00:14:56,069 --> 00:14:54,320
exactly

438
00:14:58,470 --> 00:14:56,079
so um

439
00:15:01,509 --> 00:14:58,480
so that if you get another picture up

440
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:01,519
of a of an aegis cruiser it doesn't

441
00:15:04,710 --> 00:15:03,360
matter which one and maybe you can find

442
00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:04,720
the mobile bay

443
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:07,279
on this particular day um

444
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:10,000
i was up topside i mean i was outdoors

445
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:11,279
on the ship

446
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:14,240
and i was up above the bridge

447
00:15:18,710 --> 00:15:16,399
on the outside of the ship

448
00:15:20,710 --> 00:15:18,720
and all this activity you can't really

449
00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:20,720
see in this picture here but those lines

450
00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:22,800
and hoses that are connected there

451
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:25,120
there is a small army of people on both

452
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:28,480
ships that are tending to all of that

453
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:31,120
and there's a lot of activity

454
00:15:36,150 --> 00:15:33,680
there's a lot going on down there

455
00:15:38,069 --> 00:15:36,160
and i'm way up above

456
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:38,079
on top of the bridge just looking down

457
00:15:42,389 --> 00:15:40,560
in amazement now it was amazing to me

458
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:42,399
because i wasn't in

459
00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:43,920
yeah i was in the navy but we used to

460
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:45,360
kind of refer to it as the hollywood

461
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:46,240
navy

462
00:15:50,069 --> 00:15:48,240
you know i didn't ride that ship over i

463
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:50,079
wasn't part of the ship's company

464
00:15:52,949 --> 00:15:51,440
meaning i wasn't part of the ship's

465
00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:52,959
regular crew

466
00:15:57,590 --> 00:15:54,560
i was a

467
00:15:59,910 --> 00:15:57,600
a td a temporary duty guy i show up in

468
00:16:02,230 --> 00:15:59,920
the middle of the night on a hilo

469
00:16:03,910 --> 00:16:02,240
and then in a few days i might leave

470
00:16:06,310 --> 00:16:03,920
that ship like whenever it leaves the

471
00:16:07,990 --> 00:16:06,320
persian gulf and that's

472
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:08,000
that's the mobile day sorry so you would

473
00:16:10,949 --> 00:16:09,360
yeah if they didn't need you anymore

474
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:10,959
they would send you back to the hotel

475
00:16:17,430 --> 00:16:14,560
they sent me back to to to dubai or to

476
00:16:19,189 --> 00:16:17,440
abu dhabi or yeah to a hotel typically

477
00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:19,199
but they might have had dorms too like

478
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:20,720
they would rent apartment suites and

479
00:16:23,590 --> 00:16:22,079
stuff like that now there's an entire

480
00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:23,600
command that's stationed over there in

481
00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:26,240
bahrain or stood up in bahrain fifth

482
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:29,040
fleet but at the time you'd stay in a

483
00:16:34,150 --> 00:16:32,560
flat or an apartment or a hotel

484
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:34,160
and you're on per diem and all that just

485
00:16:37,910 --> 00:16:36,240
waiting on the phone call because maybe

486
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:37,920
another ship is coming back into the

487
00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:40,000
gulf and they need a surface guy a

488
00:16:43,269 --> 00:16:42,160
linguist on board while they're there so

489
00:16:44,470 --> 00:16:43,279
anyway

490
00:16:46,389 --> 00:16:44,480
if you look at this picture here right

491
00:16:48,389 --> 00:16:46,399
above the bridge right above those

492
00:16:49,990 --> 00:16:48,399
windows see the spy one radar on the

493
00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:50,000
front and on the side there that that's

494
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:51,199
that grid

495
00:16:55,350 --> 00:16:52,720
that funny looking thing on the front of

496
00:16:56,069 --> 00:16:55,360
the of the vessel on the superstructure

497
00:16:57,910 --> 00:16:56,079
right

498
00:17:00,629 --> 00:16:57,920
well up above that the windows there

499
00:17:03,350 --> 00:17:00,639
that's the bridge and up above that

500
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:03,360
is where i was standing and that's i'm

501
00:17:07,990 --> 00:17:06,000
pretty sure that's called the o6 level

502
00:17:11,429 --> 00:17:08,000
the decks are numbered

503
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:11,439
the the o1 level i is is the deck is the

504
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:13,839
main deck if i if i recall correctly and

505
00:17:18,949 --> 00:17:16,079
each floor above that

506
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:18,959
is a is a next numerically uh

507
00:17:23,110 --> 00:17:21,120
higher higher number so the o1 through

508
00:17:24,230 --> 00:17:23,120
the o6 and the 06 is the highest that's

509
00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:24,240
about the highest you can get on the

510
00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:25,520
ship

511
00:17:31,029 --> 00:17:29,440
without climbing the mast right

512
00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:31,039
so i'm up there

513
00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:33,600
and i'm looking down watching all this

514
00:17:38,789 --> 00:17:35,600
underway replenishment stuff

515
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:38,799
my my office is back yeah my work center

516
00:17:42,470 --> 00:17:41,120
is back down in the back kind of mid

517
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:42,480
part of the ship

518
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:44,640
down um

519
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:47,760
not low deck but close to it

520
00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:49,440
so i've had to come up several flights

521
00:17:54,870 --> 00:17:52,880
of stairs and come forward to this place

522
00:17:56,789 --> 00:17:54,880
and i knew

523
00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:56,799
because of my because number one i was

524
00:18:00,710 --> 00:17:58,320
an air crewman i'd gone through flight

525
00:18:03,669 --> 00:18:00,720
school number two i was a lifelong

526
00:18:05,669 --> 00:18:03,679
aviation enthusiast been

527
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:05,679
reading about studying airplanes all of

528
00:18:10,310 --> 00:18:07,919
my life now i have an advanced degree in

529
00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:10,320
aviation science career and aerospace

530
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:11,520
with the government

531
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:14,559
at that time i knew what just about

532
00:18:18,789 --> 00:18:16,640
every aircraft type

533
00:18:21,029 --> 00:18:18,799
was in the world particularly if it

534
00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:21,039
belonged to an adversary nation i could

535
00:18:25,029 --> 00:18:23,360
identify it

536
00:18:27,110 --> 00:18:25,039
and i know what they sound like and

537
00:18:29,029 --> 00:18:27,120
particularly having just been

538
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:29,039
a little more than a year before on the

539
00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:31,280
uss independence and having been on it

540
00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:33,280
actually a few days before

541
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:35,360
i've spent a lot of time on that ship

542
00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:38,960
i've flown off of that carrier before

543
00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:40,480
on missions

544
00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:42,720
and i know what it's like to be on or

545
00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:45,200
around an aircraft carrier when engines

546
00:18:49,990 --> 00:18:47,200
when jet engines are running when the

547
00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:50,000
normal sounds are at their peak

548
00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:51,600
when when things are the busiest i know

549
00:18:55,590 --> 00:18:53,440
what that sounds and looks like

550
00:18:58,549 --> 00:18:55,600
and i'm over here on this aegis cruiser

551
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:58,559
watching this unwrapped go on

552
00:19:02,870 --> 00:19:00,640
i know there are no flight ops going on

553
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:02,880
right now on that on the carrier they

554
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:05,200
can't launch airplanes i guess it's

555
00:19:09,430 --> 00:19:07,200
scientifically physically possible to do

556
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:09,440
that while they're connected to us but

557
00:19:13,270 --> 00:19:11,200
they don't do that

558
00:19:14,549 --> 00:19:13,280
to launch airplanes they have to turn

559
00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:14,559
into the wind

560
00:19:17,909 --> 00:19:16,400
typically to get more wind across the

561
00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:17,919
deck to assist the launch of the

562
00:19:21,830 --> 00:19:19,840
aircraft they don't do that while

563
00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:21,840
they're doing an underway replenishment

564
00:19:26,230 --> 00:19:23,440
they didn't even have any helicopters

565
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:26,240
flying that day neither did we

566
00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:27,760
because the cruiser has its own

567
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:29,120
helicopters

568
00:19:33,190 --> 00:19:31,440
there was nothing flying

569
00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:33,200
and i hear this

570
00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:35,440
i hear and i

571
00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:37,280
it's been years now

572
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:39,360
but i distinctly remember

573
00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:40,720
feeling

574
00:19:45,909 --> 00:19:44,080
as much as hearing this sensation

575
00:19:48,070 --> 00:19:45,919
uh it's really hard

576
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:48,080
the producers of the uni of unidentified

577
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:50,080
tried to get me to to do the sound and i

578
00:19:53,190 --> 00:19:51,520
actually did it

579
00:19:55,029 --> 00:19:53,200
i didn't want to do it i asked him to

580
00:19:56,549 --> 00:19:55,039
cut it from the camera and i thought

581
00:19:58,470 --> 00:19:56,559
they did but

582
00:19:59,110 --> 00:19:58,480
on the episode they got just a smidge

583
00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:59,120
and

584
00:20:02,230 --> 00:20:00,720
anybody trying to make that sound looks

585
00:20:04,470 --> 00:20:02,240
like an idiot so i just kind of didn't

586
00:20:05,190 --> 00:20:04,480
want them to include that

587
00:20:06,549 --> 00:20:05,200
but

588
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:06,559
you could look like an idiot here it's

589
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:09,760
okay michael just just just picture that

590
00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:11,120
a deep

591
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:13,360
guttural rumbling

592
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:15,360
uh almost like uh

593
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:17,760
like when a huge piece of equipment or a

594
00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:20,480
tractor trailer goes by your house and

595
00:20:25,029 --> 00:20:22,880
and and it shakes it shakes the floor

596
00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:25,039
you know that sort of rumbling

597
00:20:28,950 --> 00:20:26,240
um

598
00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:28,960
it was it was an effect

599
00:20:32,830 --> 00:20:31,679
of that i could feel in my body like a

600
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:32,840
like a

601
00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:36,400
pulsation but it was also audible

602
00:20:41,430 --> 00:20:39,440
so in the span of this is probably maybe

603
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:41,440
three to four seconds

604
00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:43,520
i hear that

605
00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:46,000
i'm looking down and we're going we're

606
00:20:49,029 --> 00:20:47,360
going this way

607
00:20:51,430 --> 00:20:49,039
both of us are you know but both ships

608
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:51,440
are going to the north at the time

609
00:20:56,630 --> 00:20:54,000
i'm looking down i hear that i look up

610
00:20:58,310 --> 00:20:56,640
on the flight deck i already know

611
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:58,320
there are no flight ops

612
00:21:01,750 --> 00:20:59,840
i've been up there for 30 minutes

613
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:01,760
already

614
00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:04,080
so i quickly scan the deck

615
00:21:07,590 --> 00:21:06,640
i look back to the back of the carrier

616
00:21:09,350 --> 00:21:07,600
which

617
00:21:10,789 --> 00:21:09,360
and i'm assuming they still do this on

618
00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:10,799
the back of an aircraft carrier are

619
00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:13,039
these big test stands

620
00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:15,360
where the aircraft maintenance guys if

621
00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:16,880
they have to work on an engine they'll

622
00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:18,400
remove it from the jet

623
00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:20,480
before they reinstall it when they're

624
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:22,720
finished fixing it they'll take it back

625
00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:25,200
and mount it to this test stand

626
00:21:28,630 --> 00:21:27,280
and they'll fire the engine up off the

627
00:21:30,549 --> 00:21:28,640
back of the ship

628
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:30,559
and run it up and do tests on the engine

629
00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:32,960
at full power afterburner

630
00:21:37,669 --> 00:21:35,760
but it's on a big a big rack capable of

631
00:21:39,510 --> 00:21:37,679
holding that engine and it's on the very

632
00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:39,520
back of the ship back on what they call

633
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:40,960
the fan tail

634
00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:42,720
so in the span of about a second a half

635
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:44,559
to three seconds i look up on the flight

636
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:45,520
deck

637
00:21:48,630 --> 00:21:46,960
i look to the back of the carrier

638
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:48,640
thinking maybe somebody's testing a jet

639
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:50,159
engine

640
00:21:53,590 --> 00:21:51,360
and then i

641
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:53,600
the next place to look was up

642
00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:55,200
and i look straight up

643
00:21:57,669 --> 00:21:56,960
so we're going this way i look straight

644
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:57,679
up

645
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:00,320
and there's the most pristine

646
00:22:04,149 --> 00:22:02,799
black triangle

647
00:22:04,950 --> 00:22:04,159
cutting across

648
00:22:07,270 --> 00:22:04,960
uh

649
00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:07,280
not cutting across headed right above us

650
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:09,919
it's it's coming it's as if it flew

651
00:22:15,590 --> 00:22:13,120
i call it as if it flew up our wake

652
00:22:18,549 --> 00:22:15,600
like if it was flying out over the gulf

653
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:18,559
couldn't find us but did see from miles

654
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:20,880
behind saw the wake we had made because

655
00:22:24,470 --> 00:22:22,400
you can see that on the ocean from a

656
00:22:26,870 --> 00:22:24,480
ship especially a carrier just like a

657
00:22:28,390 --> 00:22:26,880
speed boat made so it makes awake

658
00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:28,400
it's like they started following that

659
00:22:33,430 --> 00:22:31,120
wake he was right above us

660
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:33,440
on the same course and heading

661
00:22:37,430 --> 00:22:35,760
and i had been out there enough and had

662
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:37,440
seen one of the things you have to do in

663
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:38,720
that job

664
00:22:44,070 --> 00:22:40,960
is you have to know that it's very busy

665
00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:44,080
with the commercial air so airliners

666
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:46,159
flying around in the middle east that's

667
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:48,240
one of your one of your roles is making

668
00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:49,600
sure

669
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:52,480
that an airliner isn't mistaken like it

670
00:22:55,830 --> 00:22:53,600
was

671
00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:55,840
many years ago when the u.s has been

672
00:23:00,390 --> 00:22:58,240
sins another aegis cruiser

673
00:23:02,470 --> 00:23:00,400
accidentally downed an iranian jet

674
00:23:03,590 --> 00:23:02,480
iranian passenger plate

675
00:23:06,630 --> 00:23:03,600
so

676
00:23:09,669 --> 00:23:06,640
i'd seen hundreds of them

677
00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:09,679
from the gulf area both on ship and on

678
00:23:13,590 --> 00:23:11,440
shore i knew what what an airliner

679
00:23:14,390 --> 00:23:13,600
looked over the gulf because the to go

680
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:14,400
from

681
00:23:17,830 --> 00:23:16,080
one side of the gulf to the other it's

682
00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:17,840
not very it's not very wide not a big

683
00:23:21,029 --> 00:23:19,200
body of water

684
00:23:23,430 --> 00:23:21,039
jets don't have to get up to too high on

685
00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:23,440
altitude to transit across it and i'm

686
00:23:27,029 --> 00:23:24,640
just going to play

687
00:23:29,669 --> 00:23:27,039
just what unidentified did is that is

688
00:23:31,510 --> 00:23:29,679
that accurate what you saw

689
00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:31,520
not really but it's it's it's close

690
00:23:36,710 --> 00:23:34,640
enough to get the point across right

691
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:36,720
okay sorry

692
00:23:39,909 --> 00:23:38,159
um

693
00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:39,919
but as you saw in that depiction there

694
00:23:44,230 --> 00:23:41,760
with the graphics

695
00:23:47,830 --> 00:23:44,240
it this was a a black

696
00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:47,840
equilateral triangle it the the um

697
00:23:52,789 --> 00:23:50,480
the tips were rounded the corners on the

698
00:23:54,710 --> 00:23:52,799
underside were very bright

699
00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,720
bright enough they were almost i call it

700
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:56,400
welders arc bright

701
00:23:59,669 --> 00:23:58,080
if anybody's ever or like lightning

702
00:24:03,430 --> 00:23:59,679
strike bright

703
00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:03,440
but the golf is very hazy very hot

704
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:05,120
very humid

705
00:24:08,470 --> 00:24:06,640
and

706
00:24:10,789 --> 00:24:08,480
i've seen so many aircraft out there

707
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:10,799
both hours and commercial and and

708
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:11,760
foreign

709
00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:13,760
fighter jets flying around

710
00:24:17,830 --> 00:24:15,520
you could you know i couldn't guess the

711
00:24:20,149 --> 00:24:17,840
altitude within uh within probably a

712
00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:20,159
thousand feet but i could estimate that

713
00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:22,000
it was somewhere between seven and ten

714
00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:23,919
thousand feet up

715
00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:26,640
so whatever this was look to me to be

716
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:31,200
about 737 to 747 sized

717
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:33,039
it gives you a reference you know for

718
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:34,480
scale

719
00:24:37,669 --> 00:24:35,760
uh

720
00:24:38,549 --> 00:24:37,679
and it was beautiful

721
00:24:43,510 --> 00:24:38,559
it was

722
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:43,520
it stayed in view for about

723
00:24:47,350 --> 00:24:45,360
under 10 seconds

724
00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:47,360
and it was it was hazy and there were

725
00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:50,240
some light clouds and it and it sort of

726
00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:51,840
faded out of view

727
00:24:57,990 --> 00:24:55,120
uh in the haze and in in the clouds

728
00:24:59,990 --> 00:24:58,000
and as soon as it was uh

729
00:25:02,149 --> 00:25:00,000
fading out of view so this is all in the

730
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:02,159
span of under 10 seconds

731
00:25:06,149 --> 00:25:03,840
with all of this underway replenishment

732
00:25:07,669 --> 00:25:06,159
going on

733
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:07,679
not knowing

734
00:25:11,669 --> 00:25:09,360
that i'm standing

735
00:25:15,430 --> 00:25:11,679
literally could reach back apparently

736
00:25:18,390 --> 00:25:15,440
i found out and touch the ship's horn

737
00:25:21,029 --> 00:25:18,400
the ship ships have horns foghorns

738
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:21,039
this horn starts blasting

739
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:24,480
with repeated blast at like one second

740
00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:28,400
blast followed by a second a half

741
00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:30,720
dead period then another blast

742
00:25:35,669 --> 00:25:33,760
and then this just keeps on going for i

743
00:25:37,430 --> 00:25:35,679
don't know five ten seconds

744
00:25:39,190 --> 00:25:37,440
and me and there's another guy next to

745
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:39,200
me i don't know who he was didn't know

746
00:25:43,029 --> 00:25:40,480
him at the time

747
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:43,039
but we're so close to this ship's horn

748
00:25:47,029 --> 00:25:44,960
imagine have you ever been by a railroad

749
00:25:48,789 --> 00:25:47,039
crossing when a when a diesel locomotive

750
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:48,799
goes by and hear how with your windows

751
00:25:53,909 --> 00:25:50,880
rolled down those those air horns are

752
00:25:57,669 --> 00:25:53,919
incredibly loud well this was

753
00:26:01,269 --> 00:25:57,679
10x of a train air horn

754
00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:01,279
and so the first thing we did was yell

755
00:26:06,310 --> 00:26:04,720
wtf and put our hands over our ears and

756
00:26:08,149 --> 00:26:06,320
kind of crouch down i mean it physically

757
00:26:09,909 --> 00:26:08,159
hurt so how many people how many people

758
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:09,919
were around you how many people saw it

759
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:11,120
with you

760
00:26:17,669 --> 00:26:13,200
about me and about two maybe three

761
00:26:19,269 --> 00:26:17,679
others there was a there's a small shack

762
00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:19,279
people called it a shack but up there

763
00:26:23,029 --> 00:26:20,960
where i was standing there is i think

764
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:23,039
it's called the signalman's bridge

765
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:25,360
it's the guys that that you know you saw

766
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:27,440
in that picture of the cruiser

767
00:26:31,510 --> 00:26:29,440
the ship's mast and the flags and all

768
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:31,520
these lines and stuff up there

769
00:26:37,990 --> 00:26:34,720
ships uh they have signalmen signalman

770
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:38,000
and that that rating goes back 200 years

771
00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:40,240
they'll run different flags up the fl up

772
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:42,000
the yard or up the flagpole or up the

773
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:43,840
line whatever it's called

774
00:26:49,029 --> 00:26:45,760
and those different flags have different

775
00:26:50,710 --> 00:26:49,039
symbols and it might be setting the uh

776
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,720
like if we're on a certain exercise or

777
00:26:53,510 --> 00:26:52,480
certain mission you know they have

778
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:53,520
you can't really see them in this

779
00:26:57,269 --> 00:26:55,200
picture you can see a few they're

780
00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:57,279
sticking up above that round radome

781
00:27:00,310 --> 00:26:58,640
above the bridge

782
00:27:02,549 --> 00:27:00,320
but there's a signalman shack up there

783
00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:02,559
and it's those guys jobs to swap out the

784
00:27:09,110 --> 00:27:07,269
and that's another rating in the navy

785
00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:09,120
just like cryptologic technician being a

786
00:27:13,190 --> 00:27:11,440
signalman and i don't understand it and

787
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:13,200
never spend any time around them but

788
00:27:17,029 --> 00:27:14,880
there was those those guys were up there

789
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:17,039
at least one of them so i do recall

790
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:19,200
three to four people including myself

791
00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:20,960
okay um

792
00:27:26,230 --> 00:27:22,880
so so

793
00:27:29,510 --> 00:27:27,350
is

794
00:27:31,830 --> 00:27:29,520
in the context of what just happened

795
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:31,840
here we are we're all looking up

796
00:27:36,789 --> 00:27:34,720
all of us us four three or four

797
00:27:38,230 --> 00:27:36,799
and all of a sudden this horn starts

798
00:27:40,389 --> 00:27:38,240
blowing

799
00:27:42,389 --> 00:27:40,399
we're now crouched down

800
00:27:44,310 --> 00:27:42,399
and we hear over the speaker system

801
00:27:46,389 --> 00:27:44,320
called the 1mc over the ship's

802
00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:46,399
announcement system

803
00:27:52,149 --> 00:27:50,240
emergency breakaway emergency breakaway

804
00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:52,159
and what that is

805
00:27:56,149 --> 00:27:53,520
uh

806
00:27:58,389 --> 00:27:56,159
it's an exercise to rapidly

807
00:28:01,029 --> 00:27:58,399
put distance between the two ships that

808
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:01,039
are running side by side like we were

809
00:28:06,310 --> 00:28:03,360
we're all connected and it they

810
00:28:08,630 --> 00:28:06,320
they do that in case they're attacked

811
00:28:09,990 --> 00:28:08,640
and they have to be ready so literally

812
00:28:11,590 --> 00:28:10,000
when they do an emergency breakaway

813
00:28:13,510 --> 00:28:11,600
drill after going through all the

814
00:28:15,350 --> 00:28:13,520
trouble to get those lines and those big

815
00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:15,360
fuel hoses and everything else they got

816
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:17,120
going on that's transferring back and

817
00:28:19,750 --> 00:28:18,399
forth

818
00:28:21,190 --> 00:28:19,760
they've literally got i don't know what

819
00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:21,200
the standard is because there's a

820
00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:22,799
there's a time standard that they have

821
00:28:29,350 --> 00:28:25,919
to meet the quicker the better

822
00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:29,360
they have guys standing by with axes to

823
00:28:34,950 --> 00:28:32,720
cut these hoses and cables

824
00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:34,960
with force if needed if something gets

825
00:28:38,789 --> 00:28:36,720
hung up and they can't quickly release

826
00:28:40,630 --> 00:28:38,799
them the normal way

827
00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:40,640
because they have got to get those two

828
00:28:45,669 --> 00:28:42,960
ships away from each other now during an

829
00:28:48,630 --> 00:28:45,679
emergency breakaway it signifies that

830
00:28:50,389 --> 00:28:48,640
the ships are in danger

831
00:28:52,389 --> 00:28:50,399
let's break away from each other right

832
00:28:53,590 --> 00:28:52,399
now and let's get ready to fight the

833
00:28:54,789 --> 00:28:53,600
ship

834
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:54,799
and you i would think that you right

835
00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:56,640
away you're thinking it's related to the

836
00:28:59,830 --> 00:28:58,000
to the craft that went over right

837
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:59,840
there's nothing else going on and it

838
00:29:02,070 --> 00:29:01,200
didn't i didn't think about that until

839
00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:02,080
later

840
00:29:07,430 --> 00:29:05,520
okay um but it just didn't make sense

841
00:29:09,190 --> 00:29:07,440
i've been on ships before when they do

842
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:09,200
emergency breakaways

843
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:10,880
it's announced

844
00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:12,720
they announce it

845
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:15,200
you know today's plan of the day

846
00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:17,840
is going to include an unrep with the

847
00:29:22,470 --> 00:29:20,960
uss whatever and maybe it's a real one

848
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:22,480
where you're next to a supply ship and

849
00:29:25,590 --> 00:29:24,240
you get hooked up like i described and

850
00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:25,600
they're doing stuff and then when you're

851
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:26,480
done

852
00:29:31,110 --> 00:29:28,720
they'll do they'll blast that horn and

853
00:29:32,710 --> 00:29:31,120
they'll call emergency breakaway and all

854
00:29:34,470 --> 00:29:32,720
those guys down there will really

855
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:34,480
quickly start undoing everything they've

856
00:29:37,830 --> 00:29:35,919
got going

857
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,840
those hoses and lines will drop off in

858
00:29:42,070 --> 00:29:39,520
the water and start trailing behind the

859
00:29:44,630 --> 00:29:42,080
ship and both the ships will go to full

860
00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:44,640
speed and start turning turning away

861
00:29:49,110 --> 00:29:46,640
from each other like this

862
00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:49,120
as quickly as they can in case there

863
00:29:52,389 --> 00:29:50,720
were a real threat

864
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:52,399
and they needed to start you know go to

865
00:29:55,669 --> 00:29:54,000
battle stations and start defending

866
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:55,679
themselves that's what the emergency

867
00:30:00,230 --> 00:29:57,760
breakaway drill is for or in case a

868
00:30:01,990 --> 00:30:00,240
submarine is sighted an enemy submarine

869
00:30:04,230 --> 00:30:02,000
is sighted they're in the middle of your

870
00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:04,240
unreal you get the point

871
00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:06,080
and michael before we go further when

872
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:07,840
when it went by you in that 10 seconds

873
00:30:11,669 --> 00:30:09,919
did the ch did the sound and the feeling

874
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:11,679
did it change at all like did it get

875
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:14,720
less than did it lessen itself it was a

876
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:17,200
just a little bit of a when i see a

877
00:30:21,190 --> 00:30:18,240
little bit

878
00:30:27,269 --> 00:30:22,630
it faded

879
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:27,279
hearing or and feeling the sensation

880
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:29,760
this all happened in the blink of an eye

881
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:32,399
you hear and feel it i look over quickly

882
00:30:35,909 --> 00:30:33,919
nowhere else nothing going on over there

883
00:30:37,430 --> 00:30:35,919
so i look up oh there it is now the

884
00:30:40,070 --> 00:30:37,440
clock's ticking because this is less

885
00:30:41,029 --> 00:30:40,080
than 10 seconds i'm gonna see this thing

886
00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:41,039
and

887
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:44,240
uh as it counts down from three to two

888
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:46,799
to one it's going out of range

889
00:30:49,669 --> 00:30:48,240
and all of a sudden this horn starts

890
00:30:50,710 --> 00:30:49,679
blaring and we're down like this right

891
00:30:52,870 --> 00:30:50,720
here

892
00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:52,880
uh and then we look up and all these

893
00:30:56,549 --> 00:30:55,120
guys are busy disconnecting everything

894
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:56,559
down below and the next thing you know

895
00:31:00,149 --> 00:30:58,480
the ship's picking up speed you can feel

896
00:31:01,509 --> 00:31:00,159
it and we're turning away from the

897
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:01,519
carrier and then literally in a couple

898
00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:04,000
of minutes the carrier's way over there

899
00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:05,840
and we we were just right next to it

900
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:08,000
right just a couple of minutes before

901
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:09,039
so

902
00:31:15,190 --> 00:31:13,120
with the unrep i wasn't even part of

903
00:31:16,789 --> 00:31:15,200
ship's company i was just taking a break

904
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:16,799
and a guy actually told me hey we're

905
00:31:19,830 --> 00:31:19,120
doing a unre doing an unrep next to the

906
00:31:22,389 --> 00:31:19,840
uh

907
00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:22,399
to the indy uss independence if if

908
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:23,760
you're going top side you go up there

909
00:31:25,909 --> 00:31:24,960
and check it out and that's what i was

910
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:25,919
doing

911
00:31:30,310 --> 00:31:27,600
so um

912
00:31:31,590 --> 00:31:30,320
i went back down to my work center this

913
00:31:34,470 --> 00:31:31,600
is one second this is this is an

914
00:31:37,509 --> 00:31:34,480
emergency breakaway drill

915
00:31:39,029 --> 00:31:37,519
according to the description

916
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:39,039
you've seen that happen plenty of times

917
00:31:44,470 --> 00:31:41,760
when you were on these ships yep

918
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:44,480
all right just so people could see that

919
00:31:48,950 --> 00:31:46,559
well this is a normal this is normal

920
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:48,960
disconnection right here right emergency

921
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:50,880
breakaway

922
00:31:57,909 --> 00:31:54,320
you've got backup guys that are see that

923
00:32:00,549 --> 00:31:57,919
they that big uh rope there

924
00:32:02,230 --> 00:32:00,559
they they they fire a line over when

925
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:02,240
they start that they shoot this real

926
00:32:05,350 --> 00:32:03,840
thin line over with this like i guess

927
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:05,360
it's like a shotgun has a leader a

928
00:32:09,669 --> 00:32:07,039
weighted leader

929
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:09,679
they hurl it over with a shotgun

930
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:12,320
guys grab it they they tie it around

931
00:32:17,509 --> 00:32:14,559
this big winch system

932
00:32:19,750 --> 00:32:17,519
and then to it they tie this little

933
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:19,760
pulley system and they attach a larger

934
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:20,799
rope

935
00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:22,720
and then they using the pulley system

936
00:32:29,190 --> 00:32:23,919
mechanical

937
00:32:31,029 --> 00:32:29,200
bigger line across okay once they get

938
00:32:34,470 --> 00:32:31,039
connected with that bigger line that can

939
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:34,480
now support weight they will then

940
00:32:38,149 --> 00:32:36,720
pull across a big fuel hose like they

941
00:32:39,509 --> 00:32:38,159
had just there that thing was probably

942
00:32:40,710 --> 00:32:39,519
six or eight inches in diameter it

943
00:32:42,230 --> 00:32:40,720
looked like to me

944
00:32:45,190 --> 00:32:42,240
and then when it's got fuel flowing

945
00:32:46,710 --> 00:32:45,200
across it you know it weighs tons right

946
00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:46,720
so they have to get that line across

947
00:32:49,669 --> 00:32:48,799
they have to get it real taut

948
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:49,679
um

949
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:52,559
tight pulled taut

950
00:32:57,350 --> 00:32:55,120
and and and they can break they can snap

951
00:32:58,789 --> 00:32:57,360
and cause injuries and death right so

952
00:33:00,549 --> 00:32:58,799
it's pretty dangerous

953
00:33:03,110 --> 00:33:00,559
but whenever they're doing it they have

954
00:33:04,389 --> 00:33:03,120
a crew of guys standing by to the side

955
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:04,399
in the background

956
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:06,080
and they've got

957
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:07,600
i know they have access because i've

958
00:33:11,430 --> 00:33:09,440
seen them holding them several times

959
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:11,440
ready to cut chop whatever they got to

960
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:13,440
do to get those cables and hoses you

961
00:33:16,710 --> 00:33:14,880
know disconnected

962
00:33:18,870 --> 00:33:16,720
they probably even have a chainsaw no

963
00:33:20,389 --> 00:33:18,880
kidding so as this is going on you make

964
00:33:22,710 --> 00:33:20,399
your way down

965
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:22,720
so i go from straight from the 06 level

966
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:25,760
back down to to my work center

967
00:33:29,350 --> 00:33:27,279
and in the work center on this

968
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:29,360
particular vessel unlike some of the

969
00:33:31,029 --> 00:33:30,080
other

970
00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:31,039
older

971
00:33:34,789 --> 00:33:33,279
or different class uh

972
00:33:37,190 --> 00:33:34,799
ships that i that

973
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:37,200
a cryptologic technician might work on

974
00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:38,480
this ship

975
00:33:42,149 --> 00:33:40,880
had some really nice gear inside the

976
00:33:44,389 --> 00:33:42,159
work center

977
00:33:46,870 --> 00:33:44,399
that and in one case it was a it's a

978
00:33:48,549 --> 00:33:46,880
radar table and this is all

979
00:33:50,950 --> 00:33:48,559
you can go find this online you know

980
00:33:53,830 --> 00:33:50,960
it's not anything sensitive it's it's a

981
00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:53,840
radar table uh it's think of a kitchen

982
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:55,919
butcher block or an island in a kitchen

983
00:34:00,230 --> 00:33:56,880
right

984
00:34:02,710 --> 00:34:00,240
you can stand around this table uh it's

985
00:34:05,350 --> 00:34:02,720
and then one part of it is this round

986
00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:05,360
scope that's a radar screen

987
00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:07,360
and i don't know if it has a direct feed

988
00:34:12,389 --> 00:34:09,760
from the radar itself the spy 1 radar or

989
00:34:15,030 --> 00:34:12,399
if it's just an emulation if you're just

990
00:34:17,349 --> 00:34:15,040
trunking it off of the main

991
00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:17,359
spy-1 radar up in the combat center

992
00:34:22,710 --> 00:34:19,520
either way it's a it's a real picture of

993
00:34:24,310 --> 00:34:22,720
the radar scene and i forget the

994
00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:24,320
what the scan volume is that it's

995
00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:25,280
showing

996
00:34:27,829 --> 00:34:26,320
um

997
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:27,839
or meaning you know those things will

998
00:34:31,829 --> 00:34:29,760
see over the horizon right

999
00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:31,839
but i know that if we were in the

1000
00:34:36,149 --> 00:34:34,639
central persian gulf i could see well up

1001
00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:36,159
into

1002
00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:38,720
uh middle and northern iraq

1003
00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:41,200
on the radar it was depicted on the map

1004
00:34:45,669 --> 00:34:43,679
now if a plane was hugging the deck

1005
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:45,679
like it you know 50 feet altitude then

1006
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:46,720
pretty soon they're going to get over

1007
00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:48,800
the horizon outside of you

1008
00:34:53,829 --> 00:34:50,480
but this thing was about seven to ten

1009
00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:53,839
thousand feet and it had been no more

1010
00:34:59,430 --> 00:34:56,879
than i don't know four to five minutes

1011
00:35:01,109 --> 00:34:59,440
probably less between the time

1012
00:35:02,790 --> 00:35:01,119
it passed out of view

1013
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:02,800
the emergency breakaway and i'm going

1014
00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:04,160
down back down

1015
00:35:07,030 --> 00:35:05,599
back down to my work center and i'm and

1016
00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:07,040
i'm standing there

1017
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:09,520
looking at this radar table

1018
00:35:13,589 --> 00:35:11,119
and i used to

1019
00:35:15,430 --> 00:35:13,599
consult that table a lot to confirm

1020
00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:15,440
stuff that i was doing on my job and i'm

1021
00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:17,119
used to looking at it i know how to read

1022
00:35:20,069 --> 00:35:18,000
it

1023
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:20,079
this is a radar picture how many times

1024
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:21,440
have people seen it in a movie you know

1025
00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:23,359
they're not that complicated

1026
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:24,400
and

1027
00:35:28,069 --> 00:35:26,160
i did not see

1028
00:35:28,829 --> 00:35:28,079
anything representing

1029
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:28,839
an

1030
00:35:33,829 --> 00:35:31,200
aircraft at the position that should

1031
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:33,839
have been in approximately going in that

1032
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:36,000
direction approximately at that

1033
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:38,560
particular altitude approximately

1034
00:35:43,109 --> 00:35:40,640
or what have you there was nothing all

1035
00:35:44,950 --> 00:35:43,119
there were were uh

1036
00:35:46,870 --> 00:35:44,960
oil company helicopters from the

1037
00:35:48,470 --> 00:35:46,880
different countries you could see them

1038
00:35:50,630 --> 00:35:48,480
but there was nothing

1039
00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:50,640
that indicated that what i saw was on

1040
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:52,240
radar so

1041
00:35:55,670 --> 00:35:53,920
was there anybody else in your workspace

1042
00:35:57,510 --> 00:35:55,680
or just it was just it was yeah there's

1043
00:35:59,829 --> 00:35:57,520
plenty of people up there and i i

1044
00:36:01,910 --> 00:35:59,839
mentioned it you know but um

1045
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:01,920
what did they say anything uh you know

1046
00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:04,160
this

1047
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:06,320
that goofy spook right

1048
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:07,760
i'm not part of their

1049
00:36:12,870 --> 00:36:10,800
i work with them and i work for them on

1050
00:36:14,790 --> 00:36:12,880
that ship but i'm not

1051
00:36:17,109 --> 00:36:14,800
and i am responsible to them while i'm

1052
00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:17,119
there helping them but um

1053
00:36:20,069 --> 00:36:18,400
they just treat you differently

1054
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:20,079
differently that's uh because you're not

1055
00:36:23,589 --> 00:36:21,520
part you're not you didn't come over

1056
00:36:25,670 --> 00:36:23,599
with them from home port

1057
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:25,680
you know you don't uh you're not

1058
00:36:28,790 --> 00:36:27,280
bunkmates with them

1059
00:36:30,230 --> 00:36:28,800
i don't mean bunkmates but you know what

1060
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:30,240
i'm saying you're not birthing mates

1061
00:36:32,069 --> 00:36:31,119
with them

1062
00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:32,079
um

1063
00:36:35,829 --> 00:36:33,280
they just treat you a little different

1064
00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:35,839
because you're you're a transient

1065
00:36:38,950 --> 00:36:38,000
you're not permanent party and that's

1066
00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:38,960
literally what they that's the

1067
00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:41,520
differences i was a transient

1068
00:36:46,310 --> 00:36:44,000
their permanent party on board that ship

1069
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:46,320
they treat me fine although there is

1070
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:47,520
something funny i can tell you if you

1071
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:48,880
want to go into something else or to ask

1072
00:36:51,990 --> 00:36:50,400
another question but

1073
00:36:53,349 --> 00:36:52,000
you know they treat you so differently

1074
00:36:55,750 --> 00:36:53,359
that as a matter of fact we had we had a

1075
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:55,760
a fire drill

1076
00:36:59,270 --> 00:36:57,680
fire drilled aboard a ship is very

1077
00:37:00,630 --> 00:36:59,280
serious fire on boardership is very

1078
00:37:01,750 --> 00:37:00,640
serious and drills were taken very

1079
00:37:03,190 --> 00:37:01,760
serious

1080
00:37:05,349 --> 00:37:03,200
they said we're gonna have a drill in

1081
00:37:07,109 --> 00:37:05,359
about an hour i said okay i'm sitting

1082
00:37:09,670 --> 00:37:07,119
there and i'm in shorts

1083
00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:09,680
and a t-shirt and my flight boots and a

1084
00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:10,720
ball cap

1085
00:37:15,829 --> 00:37:12,560
sitting there with my headphones on

1086
00:37:17,829 --> 00:37:15,839
doing my job an hour goes by

1087
00:37:19,589 --> 00:37:17,839
they call the fire drill all these

1088
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:19,599
alarms are going off

1089
00:37:23,030 --> 00:37:20,640
i said what am i supposed to do they

1090
00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:23,040
said just nothing we'll take care of it

1091
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:25,040
this is just a drill just you you keep

1092
00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:26,880
doing your job

1093
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:28,800
so after about three to five minutes i'm

1094
00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:31,119
doing my job and i happen to take my

1095
00:37:34,710 --> 00:37:32,800
headsets off and i turn and i look and

1096
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:34,720
all these guys all these permanent party

1097
00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:36,240
guys are standing there they all look

1098
00:37:40,069 --> 00:37:38,480
like michelin men or the

1099
00:37:42,870 --> 00:37:40,079
state puff marshmallow man they're in

1100
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:42,880
these giant fire proof suits

1101
00:37:46,230 --> 00:37:45,359
these huge fireproof like giant oven

1102
00:37:48,950 --> 00:37:46,240
mitts

1103
00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:48,960
big fire helmets

1104
00:37:54,310 --> 00:37:51,280
the full kit

1105
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:54,320
and i i just kind of went like hey

1106
00:37:59,750 --> 00:37:56,880
where's my stuff where's my gear and the

1107
00:38:01,670 --> 00:37:59,760
guy raises his hood and said

1108
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:01,680
ct's burn

1109
00:38:05,510 --> 00:38:03,440
and put his head helmet back down and

1110
00:38:07,589 --> 00:38:05,520
they all got a big laugh out of that

1111
00:38:11,349 --> 00:38:07,599
so that's an example of how differently

1112
00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:12,870
and that well that's endemic throughout

1113
00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:15,200
the entire that rating i mean you know

1114
00:38:17,990 --> 00:38:15,920
you're

1115
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:18,000
it's up to you to build a relationship

1116
00:38:21,589 --> 00:38:20,160
with them because you're the outsider

1117
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:21,599
and i never had any problems getting

1118
00:38:25,589 --> 00:38:23,200
along with the guys but apparently some

1119
00:38:26,390 --> 00:38:25,599
people in my line of work

1120
00:38:28,950 --> 00:38:26,400
are

1121
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:28,960
and it goes back decades just real they

1122
00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:30,560
think because they went to the language

1123
00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:31,440
school

1124
00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:32,960
they got all that training that they're

1125
00:38:38,390 --> 00:38:35,760
just god's gift to the navy

1126
00:38:40,470 --> 00:38:38,400
uh and they let it go to their head and

1127
00:38:41,670 --> 00:38:40,480
it's it's pitiful actually watching some

1128
00:38:44,310 --> 00:38:41,680
of those guys

1129
00:38:45,990 --> 00:38:44,320
and we all and we all knew who they were

1130
00:38:47,270 --> 00:38:46,000
for the people who just joined us so

1131
00:38:49,510 --> 00:38:47,280
michael was up

1132
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:49,520
he saw the triangle go by 10 seconds he

1133
00:38:53,109 --> 00:38:51,680
heard and felt it you go below to your

1134
00:38:55,270 --> 00:38:53,119
workstation there are other guys there

1135
00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:55,280
you look on the radar don't see it you

1136
00:38:58,069 --> 00:38:56,880
should have seen it unless

1137
00:39:02,790 --> 00:38:58,079
either it was

1138
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:02,800
quickly and was beyond the scope of the

1139
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:05,040
radar so where do you go those guys kind

1140
00:39:08,470 --> 00:39:06,480
of blow it off

1141
00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:08,480
so where do you go from there

1142
00:39:11,990 --> 00:39:10,560
well i had to go right back to doing my

1143
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:12,000
job because

1144
00:39:17,430 --> 00:39:15,119
i only i passed off my

1145
00:39:19,990 --> 00:39:17,440
every ship that has a guy like me before

1146
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:20,000
i can leave my workstation and take my

1147
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:21,520
take my monitoring

1148
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:22,960
headsets off

1149
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:24,720
i need to clear that with some of my

1150
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:27,200
compadres that are maybe not too many

1151
00:39:30,710 --> 00:39:29,040
miles away on another ship somewhere and

1152
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:30,720
say hey i'm gonna go do this we get on a

1153
00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:32,800
secure net on a secure telephone and i

1154
00:39:36,550 --> 00:39:35,280
said i'm gonna go top side a little bit

1155
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:36,560
cover me

1156
00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:38,640
and so that means to that guy hey don't

1157
00:39:42,069 --> 00:39:40,400
go to lunch because i'm going to lunch

1158
00:39:43,829 --> 00:39:42,079
right so he knows he's kind of looking

1159
00:39:46,390 --> 00:39:43,839
out for me on my ship

1160
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:46,400
uh i i sit right back down after i check

1161
00:39:49,990 --> 00:39:48,720
the radar i sit right back down

1162
00:39:52,310 --> 00:39:50,000
and put my

1163
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:52,320
headsets back on and start doing my job

1164
00:39:55,990 --> 00:39:54,640
my normal duties what were you thinking

1165
00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:56,000
what were you thinking that it wasn't on

1166
00:40:00,710 --> 00:39:58,640
the radar at that moment it pretty

1167
00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:00,720
quickly honestly because of it got

1168
00:40:05,829 --> 00:40:03,200
overtaken by events because out there

1169
00:40:08,630 --> 00:40:05,839
you just really can't afford to

1170
00:40:12,309 --> 00:40:08,640
to kind of flinch or blink i mentioned

1171
00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:12,319
that then sends down an iranian airliner

1172
00:40:15,670 --> 00:40:14,480
it is it is often especially when you're

1173
00:40:18,390 --> 00:40:15,680
starting out

1174
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:18,400
you literally you're listening to

1175
00:40:21,670 --> 00:40:19,760
as a linguist you're listening to

1176
00:40:24,230 --> 00:40:21,680
everything you're listening to

1177
00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:24,240
every conceivable kind of communications

1178
00:40:28,550 --> 00:40:27,280
including civilian air traffic and you

1179
00:40:30,390 --> 00:40:28,560
have to

1180
00:40:32,630 --> 00:40:30,400
take account for those civilian

1181
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:32,640
airliners you just can't afford to miss

1182
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:34,640
what so you just have to write it down

1183
00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:36,240
and so you're just busy and i just

1184
00:40:41,349 --> 00:40:39,280
forgot about it as a side note i believe

1185
00:40:43,670 --> 00:40:41,359
kevin kevin day who was involved in the

1186
00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:43,680
princeton nimitz incident the tic tac he

1187
00:40:48,950 --> 00:40:46,800
was on board the vincennes when that

1188
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:48,960
ira iranian airline of civilian airliner

1189
00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:52,480
was downed just a side note sorry yeah

1190
00:40:56,309 --> 00:40:54,160
that's another story for another day

1191
00:40:58,870 --> 00:40:56,319
because there was a guy like me on there

1192
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:58,880
there there would have been

1193
00:41:02,630 --> 00:41:00,720
well there actually was but i shouldn't

1194
00:41:04,309 --> 00:41:02,640
go into that so when is the next time

1195
00:41:06,309 --> 00:41:04,319
that you you

1196
00:41:08,550 --> 00:41:06,319
you dealt with the sighting i mean did

1197
00:41:09,670 --> 00:41:08,560
you process it when you got home i mean

1198
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:09,680
well the only thing that i remember

1199
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:11,520
thinking there that day

1200
00:41:15,670 --> 00:41:14,400
was uh it just seemed awfully odd to me

1201
00:41:17,270 --> 00:41:15,680
that they called that emergency

1202
00:41:19,270 --> 00:41:17,280
breakaway

1203
00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:19,280
and they weren't even

1204
00:41:22,470 --> 00:41:20,720
it didn't look to me like they were even

1205
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:22,480
done with the underway replenishment

1206
00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:24,480
drill they had also been transferring

1207
00:41:28,630 --> 00:41:26,160
people across

1208
00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:28,640
and in this case these were

1209
00:41:33,030 --> 00:41:31,040
navy chief petty officers that had been

1210
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:33,040
newly promoted

1211
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:35,520
and as part of their initiation they get

1212
00:41:41,349 --> 00:41:38,720
hazed for like a week or so

1213
00:41:43,510 --> 00:41:41,359
and it and it's a navy chief thing and

1214
00:41:45,670 --> 00:41:43,520
everybody in the navy knows about it

1215
00:41:47,190 --> 00:41:45,680
they they take all the people that are

1216
00:41:48,790 --> 00:41:47,200
newly promoted

1217
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:48,800
during that unwrap and they put them in

1218
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:50,800
that passenger basket it's a little

1219
00:41:53,589 --> 00:41:52,880
gondola you sit in they strap you into

1220
00:41:55,750 --> 00:41:53,599
it

1221
00:41:57,990 --> 00:41:55,760
and instead of you know the pulleys

1222
00:42:00,630 --> 00:41:58,000
taken across a crate of

1223
00:42:02,790 --> 00:42:00,640
i don't know food or whatever

1224
00:42:05,109 --> 00:42:02,800
across the other ship it's literally

1225
00:42:07,030 --> 00:42:05,119
taking a single seat

1226
00:42:09,589 --> 00:42:07,040
basket with a person strapped in there

1227
00:42:11,270 --> 00:42:09,599
across but what they do is they wait

1228
00:42:13,589 --> 00:42:11,280
until you're right out in the middle

1229
00:42:15,750 --> 00:42:13,599
and they put slack in the line

1230
00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:15,760
and they dangle you down into the water

1231
00:42:19,030 --> 00:42:17,599
which is terrifying

1232
00:42:22,069 --> 00:42:19,040
because you're hanging out there in

1233
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:22,079
between two enormous navy vessels

1234
00:42:27,349 --> 00:42:23,920
you're about i don't know

1235
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:27,359
15 20 feet above the ocean waves

1236
00:42:32,710 --> 00:42:30,400
which by the way because of the bow wave

1237
00:42:36,069 --> 00:42:32,720
the waves in between the ships

1238
00:42:38,230 --> 00:42:36,079
coming off the bow are converging

1239
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:38,240
and then they do this big splash so they

1240
00:42:42,870 --> 00:42:40,640
come off this the bow of this ship

1241
00:42:45,190 --> 00:42:42,880
and the bow of this ship that those

1242
00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:45,200
waves are coming off in between them and

1243
00:42:48,630 --> 00:42:46,880
when those waves hit they form this like

1244
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:48,640
a volcano eruption it's really

1245
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:50,000
spectacular

1246
00:42:53,589 --> 00:42:51,920
and they wait until they time it and

1247
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:53,599
they get that person out there in that

1248
00:42:55,990 --> 00:42:54,720
basket

1249
00:42:57,589 --> 00:42:56,000
and then they

1250
00:42:59,750 --> 00:42:57,599
dip them down a little lower towards the

1251
00:43:01,349 --> 00:42:59,760
water and they will literally drag them

1252
00:43:04,150 --> 00:43:01,359
through that wave and you'll there's

1253
00:43:06,550 --> 00:43:04,160
pictures of people in that basket

1254
00:43:07,990 --> 00:43:06,560
traveling through a wave

1255
00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:08,000
it's bizarre

1256
00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:10,960
um doesn't sound like fun to me

1257
00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:12,800
no um

1258
00:43:16,790 --> 00:43:14,960
but anyway i i just thought

1259
00:43:18,870 --> 00:43:16,800
they were just doing that then they

1260
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:18,880
called the break away the breakaway

1261
00:43:22,069 --> 00:43:20,640
seemed ill-timed as i guess the whole

1262
00:43:23,349 --> 00:43:22,079
point of all this

1263
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:23,359
talking about the emergency breakaway

1264
00:43:26,950 --> 00:43:24,480
drill

1265
00:43:29,349 --> 00:43:26,960
is the breakaway seemed ill-timed

1266
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:29,359
every other time i had seen one dawn

1267
00:43:33,190 --> 00:43:31,359
you either knew it was happening or you

1268
00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:33,200
knew they had finished fueling

1269
00:43:35,829 --> 00:43:34,720
and transferring whatever they were

1270
00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:35,839
transferring and there were no more

1271
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:37,680
baskets hanging out there there were no

1272
00:43:43,589 --> 00:43:41,040
more crates of whatever going across

1273
00:43:45,829 --> 00:43:43,599
this was in the middle of the exercise

1274
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:45,839
and they quickly got whatever was out

1275
00:43:49,109 --> 00:43:47,520
there that was currently going across

1276
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:49,119
they got it across

1277
00:43:52,870 --> 00:43:51,200
then they disconnected like the video

1278
00:43:55,670 --> 00:43:52,880
showed a minute ago

1279
00:43:58,550 --> 00:43:55,680
and got away from one another so my i

1280
00:44:00,390 --> 00:43:58,560
didn't think about it much that day

1281
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:00,400
but uh

1282
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:03,280
my impressions were having spent so much

1283
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:05,119
time in the persian gulf

1284
00:44:07,750 --> 00:44:06,240
even if you're in the center of the

1285
00:44:09,510 --> 00:44:07,760
persian gulf like we were we were in the

1286
00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:09,520
central persian gulf and it's not a very

1287
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:11,200
big body of water

1288
00:44:14,950 --> 00:44:13,680
it's it's it's pretty routine to see

1289
00:44:17,589 --> 00:44:14,960
aircraft

1290
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:17,599
that have either recently taken off from

1291
00:44:20,630 --> 00:44:19,200
it from an international airport or a

1292
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:20,640
military airport

1293
00:44:26,550 --> 00:44:23,760
or are going into land that are in one

1294
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:26,560
state of that flight transition or the

1295
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:28,079
other they're either descending or

1296
00:44:30,390 --> 00:44:29,520
they're ascending

1297
00:44:32,390 --> 00:44:30,400
right

1298
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:32,400
if you look carefully at one of those uh

1299
00:44:37,030 --> 00:44:34,800
jets you'll you could kind of discern

1300
00:44:38,630 --> 00:44:37,040
that hey he probably just took off

1301
00:44:40,069 --> 00:44:38,640
depends on where you are and you know

1302
00:44:41,750 --> 00:44:40,079
where all the airfields are that's your

1303
00:44:43,670 --> 00:44:41,760
job to know where these airfields are

1304
00:44:45,349 --> 00:44:43,680
because some of them have fighters

1305
00:44:46,870 --> 00:44:45,359
that can come out and fighter bombers

1306
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:46,880
that can come out and do you in so

1307
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:49,200
you've got to know all this stuff

1308
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:51,760
and if you're close enough to airfields

1309
00:44:55,829 --> 00:44:54,240
you can tell that planes nearby whether

1310
00:44:57,510 --> 00:44:55,839
they're going into land or they're

1311
00:44:59,349 --> 00:44:57,520
they've recently taken off

1312
00:45:00,630 --> 00:44:59,359
my sense when i looked up at this

1313
00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:00,640
triangle

1314
00:45:04,390 --> 00:45:03,440
was that it was um

1315
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:04,400
that it was

1316
00:45:09,670 --> 00:45:06,400
climbing

1317
00:45:11,510 --> 00:45:09,680
i can't i can't know that for sure

1318
00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:11,520
but my sense was that it was climbing

1319
00:45:15,030 --> 00:45:13,200
number one

1320
00:45:15,990 --> 00:45:15,040
that means

1321
00:45:17,589 --> 00:45:16,000
that it

1322
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:17,599
could have likely

1323
00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:21,119
so let's go to my my impressions or my

1324
00:45:27,349 --> 00:45:22,000
um

1325
00:45:29,589 --> 00:45:27,359
directly overhead

1326
00:45:31,270 --> 00:45:29,599
a carrier battle group

1327
00:45:33,109 --> 00:45:31,280
everybody that's familiar with the

1328
00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:33,119
nimitz incident

1329
00:45:37,589 --> 00:45:35,200
and the go fast

1330
00:45:39,829 --> 00:45:37,599
and the gimbal videos and all of the

1331
00:45:41,910 --> 00:45:39,839
sightings by the navy off of the coast

1332
00:45:43,990 --> 00:45:41,920
of virginia and florida

1333
00:45:44,790 --> 00:45:44,000
everybody's heard these pilots talk

1334
00:45:46,550 --> 00:45:44,800
about

1335
00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:46,560
seeing these objects in sensitive

1336
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:48,319
airspace

1337
00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:50,800
there is hardly a more sensitive piece

1338
00:45:55,270 --> 00:45:53,119
of airspace than that airspace around a

1339
00:45:56,710 --> 00:45:55,280
u.s aircraft carrier battle group it is

1340
00:45:57,990 --> 00:45:56,720
a piece of sovereign united states

1341
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:58,000
territory

1342
00:46:02,630 --> 00:46:00,880
it is a capital ship it is a treasure

1343
00:46:04,390 --> 00:46:02,640
piece of the nation

1344
00:46:07,109 --> 00:46:04,400
one of a few

1345
00:46:11,349 --> 00:46:07,119
and they spare no expense or effort or

1346
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:11,359
technology in safeguarding it 24 7 365.

1347
00:46:16,630 --> 00:46:14,480
so we had a submarine with us we had all

1348
00:46:17,670 --> 00:46:16,640
of the ships like the ones uh the one i

1349
00:46:20,150 --> 00:46:17,680
was on

1350
00:46:23,109 --> 00:46:20,160
there to support that carrier

1351
00:46:25,349 --> 00:46:23,119
and nothing overflies that aircraft

1352
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:25,359
carrier without prior

1353
00:46:29,750 --> 00:46:26,960
approval

1354
00:46:31,190 --> 00:46:29,760
if the iranians and they do

1355
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:31,200
quite frequently

1356
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:33,200
sortie a couple of aircraft to come out

1357
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:35,680
and and fly over our carriers we

1358
00:46:40,550 --> 00:46:38,160
scramble a jet or two

1359
00:46:42,870 --> 00:46:40,560
to go up and either escort them when

1360
00:46:44,710 --> 00:46:42,880
they go by

1361
00:46:47,670 --> 00:46:44,720
or

1362
00:46:50,950 --> 00:46:47,680
go out and try to get them turned around

1363
00:46:53,510 --> 00:46:50,960
but you're all the time getting flown by

1364
00:46:54,870 --> 00:46:53,520
flown meaning an air aircraft flying

1365
00:46:58,630 --> 00:46:54,880
nearby

1366
00:47:00,950 --> 00:46:58,640
um of another country whether it's a uae

1367
00:47:02,150 --> 00:47:00,960
a friendly nation like the uae or saudi

1368
00:47:04,230 --> 00:47:02,160
arabia

1369
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:04,240
even the iranians have maritime patrol

1370
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:05,359
aircraft

1371
00:47:09,510 --> 00:47:07,200
like every nation in the world

1372
00:47:11,430 --> 00:47:09,520
but they never fly directly over the

1373
00:47:13,510 --> 00:47:11,440
carrier

1374
00:47:15,190 --> 00:47:13,520
only our jets fly directly over the

1375
00:47:17,349 --> 00:47:15,200
carrier right

1376
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:17,359
so there wasn't a scramble

1377
00:47:23,030 --> 00:47:21,280
there wasn't a launch of of f-18s

1378
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:23,040
i think they had f-14s at the time too

1379
00:47:28,230 --> 00:47:24,559
still

1380
00:47:32,630 --> 00:47:29,349
so

1381
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:32,640
my hunch was that this whatever this was

1382
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:38,790
it was scheduled

1383
00:47:43,109 --> 00:47:41,280
and someone

1384
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:43,119
somewhere on those two vessels knew

1385
00:47:45,510 --> 00:47:44,400
about it

1386
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:45,520
and

1387
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:48,720
this is absolutely complete speculation

1388
00:47:54,069 --> 00:47:50,160
but it wouldn't surprise me if that

1389
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:54,079
emergency breakaway wasn't time to

1390
00:47:57,670 --> 00:47:56,640
make sure everybody was distracted doing

1391
00:48:00,309 --> 00:47:57,680
something

1392
00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:00,319
highly intensive and very critical

1393
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:02,640
like breaking down all those

1394
00:48:05,510 --> 00:48:04,400
unwrapped cables and getting the ships

1395
00:48:07,589 --> 00:48:05,520
separated

1396
00:48:09,349 --> 00:48:07,599
during the breakaway drill instead of

1397
00:48:11,990 --> 00:48:09,359
everybody gawking up at what's flying

1398
00:48:15,589 --> 00:48:12,000
over right now that's a stretch

1399
00:48:18,829 --> 00:48:15,599
right but it didn't make sense to me

1400
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:18,839
that this thing flew directly

1401
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:21,920
overhead in broad daylight in the middle

1402
00:48:24,790 --> 00:48:23,440
of the day

1403
00:48:27,589 --> 00:48:24,800
and we hadn't

1404
00:48:30,549 --> 00:48:27,599
done the emergency breakaway drill

1405
00:48:32,549 --> 00:48:30,559
minutes before when this thing was

1406
00:48:35,670 --> 00:48:32,559
detected

1407
00:48:38,069 --> 00:48:35,680
and sent a couple of f-18s up to go

1408
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:38,079
check it out and make it make it

1409
00:48:43,589 --> 00:48:41,040
either check it out or turn it away

1410
00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:43,599
or escort it

1411
00:48:48,549 --> 00:48:46,640
so it makes sense to me

1412
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:48,559
especially in light of

1413
00:48:52,150 --> 00:48:50,319
more recent events

1414
00:48:53,829 --> 00:48:52,160
and information that you know you and i

1415
00:48:55,109 --> 00:48:53,839
have talked about

1416
00:48:58,069 --> 00:48:55,119
that it's

1417
00:49:00,390 --> 00:48:58,079
it's very likely it was uh

1418
00:49:03,349 --> 00:49:00,400
like my sense that day that it was u.s

1419
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:03,359
manufactured flying out of an austere or

1420
00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:05,599
covert airfield

1421
00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:07,520
in the uae

1422
00:49:11,349 --> 00:49:09,440
or diego garcia

1423
00:49:13,109 --> 00:49:11,359
which wouldn't in that case it wouldn't

1424
00:49:14,069 --> 00:49:13,119
have been on an ascending profile

1425
00:49:16,630 --> 00:49:14,079
because

1426
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:16,640
diego garcia is way down in the indian

1427
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:18,319
ocean a long way from where we were that

1428
00:49:21,430 --> 00:49:19,280
day

1429
00:49:23,589 --> 00:49:21,440
but you know we operated the f-117 in

1430
00:49:26,069 --> 00:49:23,599
secret out of saudi arabian air force

1431
00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:26,079
bases that we had built or that we had

1432
00:49:29,510 --> 00:49:27,599
modernized

1433
00:49:31,990 --> 00:49:29,520
and nobody knew about them

1434
00:49:33,910 --> 00:49:32,000
until the opening night of the gulf war

1435
00:49:35,270 --> 00:49:33,920
or the day day two of the gulf first

1436
00:49:36,710 --> 00:49:35,280
gulf war

1437
00:49:38,790 --> 00:49:36,720
when they started talking about the

1438
00:49:39,670 --> 00:49:38,800
f-117 it turned out he'd been flying out

1439
00:49:41,750 --> 00:49:39,680
of these

1440
00:49:44,549 --> 00:49:41,760
remote airstrips out in the middle of

1441
00:49:46,710 --> 00:49:44,559
saudi arabia in the saudi desert nobody

1442
00:49:48,870 --> 00:49:46,720
knew about it right

1443
00:49:50,630 --> 00:49:48,880
so this thing very well could have

1444
00:49:52,230 --> 00:49:50,640
complete speculation but it's all in the

1445
00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:52,240
world of the possible given the

1446
00:49:56,549 --> 00:49:54,880
circumstances that day

1447
00:49:57,510 --> 00:49:56,559
so

1448
00:50:01,430 --> 00:49:57,520
if

1449
00:50:03,109 --> 00:50:01,440
was something extra governmental you

1450
00:50:05,589 --> 00:50:03,119
think it was part of

1451
00:50:07,589 --> 00:50:05,599
you know the known military

1452
00:50:11,030 --> 00:50:07,599
structure and you think it was

1453
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:13,030
well that's the thing

1454
00:50:16,870 --> 00:50:15,599
i don't know i didn't see any signs of

1455
00:50:19,349 --> 00:50:16,880
of

1456
00:50:22,069 --> 00:50:19,359
mass cancellation

1457
00:50:23,750 --> 00:50:22,079
or anti-gravity behavior i didn't see

1458
00:50:25,430 --> 00:50:23,760
any instantaneous acceleration this

1459
00:50:27,990 --> 00:50:25,440
thing was going

1460
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:28,000
like to me 350

1461
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:30,720
400 knots

1462
00:50:34,150 --> 00:50:32,240
which is moving along pretty quickly

1463
00:50:38,150 --> 00:50:34,160
right it's like being at an air show and

1464
00:50:41,510 --> 00:50:39,589
it was it was moving along pretty good

1465
00:50:43,030 --> 00:50:41,520
but it wasn't moving it like mach 1 or

1466
00:50:45,670 --> 00:50:43,040
anything like that and it also wasn't

1467
00:50:48,790 --> 00:50:45,680
just like lazily floating over

1468
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:48,800
way too slow for its apparent mass

1469
00:50:52,630 --> 00:50:50,319
in other words using some sort of

1470
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:52,640
assistive technology the mysterious

1471
00:50:57,670 --> 00:50:54,880
thing i'm going to have to turn on a i'm

1472
00:51:00,790 --> 00:50:57,680
going to say turn on the ceiling fan

1473
00:51:01,589 --> 00:51:00,800
go ahead a serious thing to me

1474
00:51:03,430 --> 00:51:01,599
uh

1475
00:51:05,109 --> 00:51:03,440
the you know these

1476
00:51:09,910 --> 00:51:05,119
these bright

1477
00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:11,349
circles

1478
00:51:18,069 --> 00:51:14,640
i i have for years i call them lights

1479
00:51:23,670 --> 00:51:21,270
they are they are apparently

1480
00:51:26,470 --> 00:51:23,680
they are the result of

1481
00:51:28,150 --> 00:51:26,480
of ionization of the air molecules

1482
00:51:29,910 --> 00:51:28,160
in the ambient air flowing around the

1483
00:51:31,190 --> 00:51:29,920
vehicle while it's in the air while it's

1484
00:51:33,990 --> 00:51:31,200
flying

1485
00:51:36,470 --> 00:51:34,000
so whatever the whatever was

1486
00:51:38,790 --> 00:51:36,480
propelling this thing along

1487
00:51:40,150 --> 00:51:38,800
you know i didn't so i i'm looking at it

1488
00:51:44,710 --> 00:51:40,160
from

1489
00:51:47,190 --> 00:51:44,720
i couldn't see it

1490
00:51:48,309 --> 00:51:47,200
all i can see is the plan form from

1491
00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:48,319
underneath

1492
00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:49,680
the rounded

1493
00:51:53,430 --> 00:51:50,800
cornered

1494
00:51:56,390 --> 00:51:53,440
equilateral triangle with bright circles

1495
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:56,400
in the middle and the bright circles

1496
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:58,640
i could tell that they were except

1497
00:52:02,470 --> 00:52:00,640
extraordinarily bright

1498
00:52:04,150 --> 00:52:02,480
and i and i could tell that because i

1499
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:04,160
knew what the haze was like in the

1500
00:52:08,150 --> 00:52:06,720
persian gulf it's like he's like 100 607

1501
00:52:09,349 --> 00:52:08,160
degrees out there

1502
00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:09,359
just as soon as you go through the

1503
00:52:14,470 --> 00:52:11,920
hatchway out onto the deck you're

1504
00:52:16,309 --> 00:52:14,480
soaking wet with sweat right it's so

1505
00:52:17,589 --> 00:52:16,319
thick the air is so thick you can cut it

1506
00:52:18,390 --> 00:52:17,599
with a knife and you're looking up

1507
00:52:21,109 --> 00:52:18,400
through that

1508
00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:21,119
so it the air is cutting the brightness

1509
00:52:25,349 --> 00:52:23,440
of these lights you can tell they're

1510
00:52:27,109 --> 00:52:25,359
they're really really bright

1511
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:27,119
but they're also being

1512
00:52:31,430 --> 00:52:29,280
uh degraded some because you're looking

1513
00:52:33,349 --> 00:52:31,440
through layers of humidity that that was

1514
00:52:35,589 --> 00:52:33,359
kind of obvious to me i'm going to jump

1515
00:52:37,349 --> 00:52:35,599
in just somebody asked a question

1516
00:52:39,109 --> 00:52:37,359
how does mike know he was observing

1517
00:52:40,069 --> 00:52:39,119
ionization

1518
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:40,079
well

1519
00:52:44,870 --> 00:52:42,960
so you want to pull that thread now or

1520
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:44,880
no we'll get to it in a second

1521
00:52:49,990 --> 00:52:47,520
um keep going and one more one more this

1522
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:50,000
may have to wait too so i so so let's

1523
00:52:53,990 --> 00:52:52,319
i'll answer the question at the time

1524
00:52:55,910 --> 00:52:54,000
i didn't know at the time i thought they

1525
00:52:58,470 --> 00:52:55,920
were lights

1526
00:53:00,470 --> 00:52:58,480
okay i just assumed that while that

1527
00:53:02,390 --> 00:53:00,480
plane had that whatever that was that

1528
00:53:04,309 --> 00:53:02,400
triangle-shaped jet

1529
00:53:06,549 --> 00:53:04,319
had some really bright lights on the

1530
00:53:07,670 --> 00:53:06,559
bottom corners of its wings i am going

1531
00:53:09,910 --> 00:53:07,680
to hold you because i want you to

1532
00:53:11,910 --> 00:53:09,920
introduce i want you to start

1533
00:53:13,670 --> 00:53:11,920
how you how your experience was

1534
00:53:15,910 --> 00:53:13,680
unidentified was and then we'll get to

1535
00:53:17,190 --> 00:53:15,920
what you're about to get to but one let

1536
00:53:19,270 --> 00:53:17,200
me just ask one question because a lot

1537
00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:19,280
of people miss the beginning i'll ask a

1538
00:53:23,910 --> 00:53:21,200
question i know you already answered it

1539
00:53:25,430 --> 00:53:23,920
somebody said jeff said in unidentified

1540
00:53:27,910 --> 00:53:25,440
he said there was michael said there was

1541
00:53:28,790 --> 00:53:27,920
a pulsing sound that he felt as much as

1542
00:53:33,349 --> 00:53:28,800
heard

1543
00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:33,359
these sounds it wasn't just something he

1544
00:53:36,790 --> 00:53:35,680
physically felt and did this sound

1545
00:53:43,109 --> 00:53:36,800
feeling

1546
00:53:48,069 --> 00:53:45,430
yeah i i heard it

1547
00:53:49,750 --> 00:53:48,079
and felt it so just to recap there were

1548
00:53:50,790 --> 00:53:49,760
no flight operations going on at all

1549
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:50,800
that day

1550
00:53:55,030 --> 00:53:52,640
i knew that moment

1551
00:53:57,109 --> 00:53:55,040
that we were right next to the carrier

1552
00:53:59,030 --> 00:53:57,119
we were so close we were i could throw a

1553
00:54:00,950 --> 00:53:59,040
baseball and hit that aircraft carrier

1554
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:00,960
that's how close we were

1555
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:04,079
when i first heard and felt this

1556
00:54:07,829 --> 00:54:06,000
my first intuition was to look up on the

1557
00:54:09,190 --> 00:54:07,839
flight deck because but i knew they

1558
00:54:11,349 --> 00:54:09,200
don't do flight operations while they're

1559
00:54:13,030 --> 00:54:11,359
doing underway replenishment drills

1560
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:13,040
so i just looked up there and i remember

1561
00:54:16,470 --> 00:54:14,720
kind of thinking oh that's

1562
00:54:18,470 --> 00:54:16,480
that's no way that's a so i look back to

1563
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:18,480
the back of the carrier i don't if

1564
00:54:22,710 --> 00:54:20,400
they're testing a jet engine

1565
00:54:24,390 --> 00:54:22,720
you in broad daylight you can tell it

1566
00:54:26,069 --> 00:54:24,400
because there will be this

1567
00:54:28,309 --> 00:54:26,079
it won't be black smoke coming out of

1568
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:28,319
that jet engine but it will rarify the

1569
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:31,359
air you can tell there's a hot

1570
00:54:36,150 --> 00:54:33,119
plume of exhaust

1571
00:54:37,829 --> 00:54:36,160
coming off of an engine on a test stand

1572
00:54:39,670 --> 00:54:37,839
on the back of an aircraft carrier if

1573
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:39,680
you're on another ship next to it and

1574
00:54:43,190 --> 00:54:41,520
they're testing a jet engine over there

1575
00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:43,200
it distorts you know it's like looking

1576
00:54:46,630 --> 00:54:44,400
down an asphalt highway in the

1577
00:54:48,390 --> 00:54:46,640
summertime and it distorts the

1578
00:54:50,230 --> 00:54:48,400
you know the the heat coming off the

1579
00:54:51,510 --> 00:54:50,240
ground distorts your view it makes a

1580
00:54:53,190 --> 00:54:51,520
mirage effect

1581
00:54:54,549 --> 00:54:53,200
so just the span of a couple of seconds

1582
00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:54,559
i looked up on the deck i looked at the

1583
00:54:58,069 --> 00:54:55,920
back of the carrier i didn't see any

1584
00:55:01,030 --> 00:54:58,079
sign of any engines anything turning or

1585
00:55:02,470 --> 00:55:01,040
burning as we said in the time

1586
00:55:04,390 --> 00:55:02,480
i knew we didn't have any helos up

1587
00:55:05,910 --> 00:55:04,400
ourselves and the only other place for

1588
00:55:07,910 --> 00:55:05,920
me to look was straight up and there it

1589
00:55:09,750 --> 00:55:07,920
was and i don't remember hearing it

1590
00:55:11,430 --> 00:55:09,760
after i was after after the guy next to

1591
00:55:13,829 --> 00:55:11,440
me and i think i did too we both said

1592
00:55:14,950 --> 00:55:13,839
wtf you know is that

1593
00:55:17,270 --> 00:55:14,960
um

1594
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:17,280
and i had a camera around my neck i'm

1595
00:55:20,470 --> 00:55:18,880
kind of embarrassed to admit this but i

1596
00:55:24,069 --> 00:55:20,480
didn't even think to get the camera up i

1597
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:24,079
was so awestruck it was so different

1598
00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:26,960
so uniquely different

1599
00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:29,520
i was thunderstruck because i knew i

1600
00:55:34,789 --> 00:55:31,359
knew what a

1601
00:55:37,270 --> 00:55:34,799
i had followed the rollout of the f-117

1602
00:55:39,349 --> 00:55:37,280
and the b-2 bomber not the f-117 so much

1603
00:55:41,270 --> 00:55:39,359
but i hadn't even subscribed at the time

1604
00:55:43,349 --> 00:55:41,280
i'd been a subscriber for several years

1605
00:55:46,230 --> 00:55:43,359
aviation week and space technology i

1606
00:55:49,190 --> 00:55:46,240
knew what a b2 bomber looked like

1607
00:55:53,430 --> 00:55:49,200
that's my point i knew what an f-117

1608
00:55:57,750 --> 00:55:55,190
this wasn't that

1609
00:56:00,549 --> 00:55:57,760
and the sound it made

1610
00:56:02,630 --> 00:56:00,559
um you know years later

1611
00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:02,640
and the more i learned about what this

1612
00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:04,000
might be

1613
00:56:08,309 --> 00:56:06,160
what um

1614
00:56:10,470 --> 00:56:08,319
it i i try to balance that with the

1615
00:56:12,470 --> 00:56:10,480
things that that witnesses say they see

1616
00:56:14,710 --> 00:56:12,480
when they see these things you know

1617
00:56:19,589 --> 00:56:14,720
silent operations

1618
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:20,789
i should say a little something about

1619
00:56:24,549 --> 00:56:22,960
the noise environment on board the ship

1620
00:56:26,630 --> 00:56:24,559
which to me is another reason it was

1621
00:56:28,789 --> 00:56:26,640
remarkable i mean think about it what

1622
00:56:31,109 --> 00:56:28,799
made me look up i already know there are

1623
00:56:33,829 --> 00:56:31,119
no flight ops going on

1624
00:56:35,109 --> 00:56:33,839
i know that i know that because of

1625
00:56:36,950 --> 00:56:35,119
several things

1626
00:56:38,069 --> 00:56:36,960
i know that the underway replenishment's

1627
00:56:40,069 --> 00:56:38,079
going on

1628
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:40,079
they can't turn into the wind they have

1629
00:56:43,109 --> 00:56:41,040
to be

1630
00:56:45,270 --> 00:56:43,119
lockstep with one another

1631
00:56:47,750 --> 00:56:45,280
paying exceeding close attention going

1632
00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:47,760
exactly the same rate of knots

1633
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:50,400
they can't they can't jig this way or

1634
00:56:54,710 --> 00:56:52,720
that way not one iota

1635
00:56:56,309 --> 00:56:54,720
it has to be perfect maybe it's computer

1636
00:56:57,910 --> 00:56:56,319
operated these days

1637
00:57:00,870 --> 00:56:57,920
but otherwise the two helmsman on those

1638
00:57:03,670 --> 00:57:00,880
two ships they've got a over you know 6

1639
00:57:05,670 --> 00:57:03,680
000 lives 5 000 lives in their hands if

1640
00:57:07,589 --> 00:57:05,680
they collide those two vessels

1641
00:57:08,789 --> 00:57:07,599
it it is a high

1642
00:57:11,270 --> 00:57:08,799
tempo

1643
00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:11,280
high anxiety moment when those giant

1644
00:57:15,750 --> 00:57:13,680
ships are next to one another like that

1645
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:15,760
and i knew there were no flight ops

1646
00:57:21,109 --> 00:57:18,720
going on how did i know to look up

1647
00:57:23,430 --> 00:57:21,119
i didn't just look up for the hell of it

1648
00:57:25,589 --> 00:57:23,440
something cued me

1649
00:57:27,349 --> 00:57:25,599
i distinctly remember it

1650
00:57:29,349 --> 00:57:27,359
and it didn't make any sense there was

1651
00:57:31,990 --> 00:57:29,359
nowhere else to look if you're next to

1652
00:57:34,230 --> 00:57:32,000
an aircraft carrier underway on the open

1653
00:57:36,710 --> 00:57:34,240
ocean and you hear

1654
00:57:38,870 --> 00:57:36,720
something that sounds like the roar

1655
00:57:42,150 --> 00:57:38,880
or the rumble

1656
00:57:44,549 --> 00:57:42,160
of something man-made

1657
00:57:45,990 --> 00:57:44,559
the first place i'm going to look is up

1658
00:57:47,990 --> 00:57:46,000
on the deck

1659
00:57:49,829 --> 00:57:48,000
because i've spent months on that ship i

1660
00:57:52,150 --> 00:57:49,839
know what aircraft carrier flight ops

1661
00:57:54,150 --> 00:57:52,160
are all about i've done them

1662
00:57:55,270 --> 00:57:54,160
that's where i looked first then i

1663
00:57:56,470 --> 00:57:55,280
thought well that's kind of stupid i

1664
00:57:58,470 --> 00:57:56,480
looked at the back

1665
00:58:00,230 --> 00:57:58,480
they're not testing anything

1666
00:58:01,990 --> 00:58:00,240
we're not flying a helo that doesn't

1667
00:58:04,069 --> 00:58:02,000
sound like a helo all this is going on

1668
00:58:05,670 --> 00:58:04,079
in like two to three seconds in my head

1669
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:05,680
right from hearing and feeling this

1670
00:58:10,710 --> 00:58:08,400
sound so that's just pretty unusual that

1671
00:58:13,349 --> 00:58:10,720
whatever this was

1672
00:58:14,789 --> 00:58:13,359
captured my attention and the attention

1673
00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:14,799
of two or three other dudes up there

1674
00:58:19,670 --> 00:58:16,160
with me

1675
00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:19,680
uh and made us look up it we noticed it

1676
00:58:24,549 --> 00:58:23,040
it is so loud it is so loud

1677
00:58:28,230 --> 00:58:24,559
on

1678
00:58:30,710 --> 00:58:28,240
an aegis type cruiser or uh even a

1679
00:58:33,190 --> 00:58:30,720
spruance class destroyer the this

1680
00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:33,200
particular ship i had my division

1681
00:58:37,829 --> 00:58:35,200
officer had taken me down below to see

1682
00:58:41,109 --> 00:58:37,839
the engine room

1683
00:58:43,510 --> 00:58:41,119
and when you're up on the deck or up

1684
00:58:45,829 --> 00:58:43,520
where i was especially and i used to go

1685
00:58:47,750 --> 00:58:45,839
lay out in the sun try to get a tan

1686
00:58:49,750 --> 00:58:47,760
a couple of times maybe three times a

1687
00:58:51,990 --> 00:58:49,760
week i'd call one of the other ships and

1688
00:58:53,910 --> 00:58:52,000
get one of my buddies to cover for me

1689
00:58:56,150 --> 00:58:53,920
and i would i would go up on the deck

1690
00:58:58,069 --> 00:58:56,160
and find an out of the way place

1691
00:58:59,030 --> 00:58:58,079
lay down this wool blanket

1692
00:59:01,750 --> 00:58:59,040
on this

1693
00:59:04,390 --> 00:59:01,760
like 170 degree steel deck you know it's

1694
00:59:06,470 --> 00:59:04,400
out there in the baking gulf sun you fry

1695
00:59:08,950 --> 00:59:06,480
an egg on it but you put this blanket

1696
00:59:11,349 --> 00:59:08,960
down and i would put in my earplugs

1697
00:59:13,109 --> 00:59:11,359
strip off to my skivvies and lay out in

1698
00:59:14,950 --> 00:59:13,119
the sun for a half hour

1699
00:59:16,870 --> 00:59:14,960
two or three times a week

1700
00:59:18,549 --> 00:59:16,880
it's so loud you really need to have

1701
00:59:21,670 --> 00:59:18,559
these earplugs on

1702
00:59:24,630 --> 00:59:21,680
these engines are

1703
00:59:28,069 --> 00:59:24,640
they're made by pratt whitney or general

1704
00:59:30,309 --> 00:59:28,079
electric they're dc-10

1705
00:59:32,069 --> 00:59:30,319
turbofan engines

1706
00:59:33,670 --> 00:59:32,079
and there are two and they're down

1707
00:59:36,390 --> 00:59:33,680
inside the ship

1708
00:59:39,030 --> 00:59:36,400
inside what was described to me

1709
00:59:41,190 --> 00:59:39,040
uh as a stainless steel

1710
00:59:44,309 --> 00:59:41,200
uh protective vault

1711
00:59:45,510 --> 00:59:44,319
both to protect because if these blades

1712
00:59:47,910 --> 00:59:45,520
if these engines were to have a

1713
00:59:49,430 --> 00:59:47,920
malfunction and start shedding blades

1714
00:59:52,309 --> 00:59:49,440
like a like a jet engine like an

1715
00:59:54,230 --> 00:59:52,319
airliner engine can and has done

1716
00:59:56,230 --> 00:59:54,240
that it's catastrophic they'll throw

1717
00:59:58,069 --> 00:59:56,240
those blades those titanium blades will

1718
00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:58,079
go you know through the skin of the ship

1719
01:00:01,990 --> 00:59:59,280
and kill people

1720
01:00:04,150 --> 01:00:02,000
so they have these jet engines

1721
01:00:07,030 --> 01:00:04,160
in these like vaults encased in this

1722
01:00:09,109 --> 01:00:07,040
really thick uh protective armor

1723
01:00:11,270 --> 01:00:09,119
and you can go to these windows that are

1724
01:00:13,430 --> 01:00:11,280
really thick like i guess bulletproof

1725
01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:13,440
glass light it's about that thick and

1726
01:00:16,230 --> 01:00:15,119
you can look in there and see these big

1727
01:00:17,829 --> 01:00:16,240
engines

1728
01:00:19,829 --> 01:00:17,839
that you would expect to be hanging from

1729
01:00:20,870 --> 01:00:19,839
an airplane engine but they're sitting

1730
01:00:23,190 --> 01:00:20,880
in there

1731
01:00:24,470 --> 01:00:23,200
there's a i think there's one per

1732
01:00:26,870 --> 01:00:24,480
vault

1733
01:00:28,549 --> 01:00:26,880
um each with its own you know sub and

1734
01:00:30,069 --> 01:00:28,559
they're connected to the shaft and they

1735
01:00:32,470 --> 01:00:30,079
provide power

1736
01:00:34,549 --> 01:00:32,480
and they provide shaft horsepower

1737
01:00:36,710 --> 01:00:34,559
but up top side

1738
01:00:38,470 --> 01:00:36,720
it sounds like you're at

1739
01:00:40,309 --> 01:00:38,480
on the flight line

1740
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:40,319
because their exhaust

1741
01:00:45,109 --> 01:00:42,400
is coming out the exhaust stack of the

1742
01:00:48,309 --> 01:00:45,119
ship and it sounds just like

1743
01:00:50,870 --> 01:00:48,319
you're standing at an airport with uh an

1744
01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:50,880
airliner engine running next to you

1745
01:00:55,670 --> 01:00:53,280
because that's what it's doing did you

1746
01:00:58,390 --> 01:00:55,680
hear it or feel it first

1747
01:01:01,190 --> 01:00:58,400
i heard and felt something same time at

1748
01:01:03,430 --> 01:01:01,200
least i thought i did but but you know i

1749
01:01:05,990 --> 01:01:03,440
had no reason to look up all the action

1750
01:01:07,670 --> 01:01:06,000
was the unwrap going on down below me

1751
01:01:09,510 --> 01:01:07,680
there's nothing up

1752
01:01:10,950 --> 01:01:09,520
let me tell people that we'll take

1753
01:01:12,230 --> 01:01:10,960
questions in a half an hour and i'm

1754
01:01:15,190 --> 01:01:12,240
going to move you along michael because

1755
01:01:17,670 --> 01:01:15,200
i know you only have an hour left so

1756
01:01:20,710 --> 01:01:17,680
tell me how you met the folks from um

1757
01:01:21,589 --> 01:01:20,720
unidentified and how that came about

1758
01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:21,599
uh

1759
01:01:24,630 --> 01:01:22,559
so i

1760
01:01:27,510 --> 01:01:24,640
the one you know one of the shows

1761
01:01:29,510 --> 01:01:27,520
as i recall there was uh on the screen

1762
01:01:32,789 --> 01:01:29,520
said something like if you're a former

1763
01:01:34,150 --> 01:01:32,799
military member and you've had a signing

1764
01:01:35,750 --> 01:01:34,160
please

1765
01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:35,760
get in touch with us

1766
01:01:40,150 --> 01:01:37,920
it's either that or it's the tta website

1767
01:01:42,150 --> 01:01:40,160
ttsa website i forget

1768
01:01:43,270 --> 01:01:42,160
and i sent an email and introduced

1769
01:01:44,549 --> 01:01:43,280
myself

1770
01:01:47,030 --> 01:01:44,559
and sort of just give it a quick

1771
01:01:48,789 --> 01:01:47,040
synopsis and then within

1772
01:01:52,710 --> 01:01:48,799
three or four days somebody emailed me

1773
01:01:55,270 --> 01:01:52,720
back and one thing led to another

1774
01:01:57,029 --> 01:01:55,280
and then i flew up to uh

1775
01:02:00,470 --> 01:01:57,039
to new york city

1776
01:02:01,430 --> 01:02:00,480
in september of what 20 2019

1777
01:02:03,029 --> 01:02:01,440
and

1778
01:02:04,549 --> 01:02:03,039
we were all staying in the same hotel in

1779
01:02:07,109 --> 01:02:04,559
brooklyn

1780
01:02:08,950 --> 01:02:07,119
lou elizondo and and several other

1781
01:02:10,309 --> 01:02:08,960
witnesses like myself

1782
01:02:13,190 --> 01:02:10,319
and uh

1783
01:02:14,789 --> 01:02:13,200
went to the studio and and met lou and

1784
01:02:16,710 --> 01:02:14,799
and did the interview and then that was

1785
01:02:17,829 --> 01:02:16,720
the first half of a couple or more hours

1786
01:02:19,750 --> 01:02:17,839
that i spent

1787
01:02:21,829 --> 01:02:19,760
is sort of like a three-parter for in my

1788
01:02:23,430 --> 01:02:21,839
mind in reality but i mean i remember it

1789
01:02:25,430 --> 01:02:23,440
distinctly in three parts

1790
01:02:26,549 --> 01:02:25,440
there was uh maybe four parts they

1791
01:02:28,470 --> 01:02:26,559
failed me

1792
01:02:30,390 --> 01:02:28,480
they did a lot of what's that b-roll

1793
01:02:31,829 --> 01:02:30,400
footage or whatever they fell me coming

1794
01:02:33,510 --> 01:02:31,839
off the elevator in a hotel getting in

1795
01:02:36,069 --> 01:02:33,520
the car riding across town told me to

1796
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:36,079
act normal act natural feel me getting

1797
01:02:39,670 --> 01:02:38,240
out of the limousine or the hired car is

1798
01:02:42,870 --> 01:02:39,680
a big suv

1799
01:02:43,910 --> 01:02:42,880
feel me going in being introduced to lou

1800
01:02:45,589 --> 01:02:43,920
right away

1801
01:02:47,270 --> 01:02:45,599
i'm told you know the camera's been

1802
01:02:49,190 --> 01:02:47,280
running it's going to keep on running

1803
01:02:50,069 --> 01:02:49,200
it's not going to stop running it until

1804
01:02:52,230 --> 01:02:50,079
we

1805
01:02:53,349 --> 01:02:52,240
take you back to the hotel

1806
01:02:56,069 --> 01:02:53,359
and that's the way that's the way it

1807
01:02:57,670 --> 01:02:56,079
worked so i go in for the first hour lou

1808
01:02:59,109 --> 01:02:57,680
and i we discussed the ground rules

1809
01:03:01,349 --> 01:02:59,119
because we're both

1810
01:03:03,109 --> 01:03:01,359
cleared professionals

1811
01:03:03,829 --> 01:03:03,119
and we

1812
01:03:09,029 --> 01:03:03,839
we

1813
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:09,039
not talk about as far as job related

1814
01:03:13,270 --> 01:03:11,680
uh clearances and all that kind of stuff

1815
01:03:14,870 --> 01:03:13,280
then the interview kind of starts and i

1816
01:03:17,270 --> 01:03:14,880
take him through the society

1817
01:03:18,470 --> 01:03:17,280
and when he's done there's another guy

1818
01:03:20,470 --> 01:03:18,480
after me

1819
01:03:22,230 --> 01:03:20,480
actually one or two more that lou has

1820
01:03:24,870 --> 01:03:22,240
got to go prepare for

1821
01:03:27,430 --> 01:03:24,880
so the producer of the show swaps seats

1822
01:03:29,270 --> 01:03:27,440
with lou i stay in the same chair

1823
01:03:31,349 --> 01:03:29,280
and then the producer has developed and

1824
01:03:33,829 --> 01:03:31,359
he's already explained all this to me

1825
01:03:35,990 --> 01:03:33,839
beforehand he's developed a list of

1826
01:03:38,870 --> 01:03:36,000
questions that he wants to

1827
01:03:39,750 --> 01:03:38,880
get some elaboration on more details

1828
01:03:42,630 --> 01:03:39,760
either

1829
01:03:44,789 --> 01:03:42,640
things i said during lose questioning

1830
01:03:45,910 --> 01:03:44,799
or questions that this producer had and

1831
01:03:48,230 --> 01:03:45,920
i forget his name but they were all

1832
01:03:49,510 --> 01:03:48,240
super nice people very respectful of

1833
01:03:51,990 --> 01:03:49,520
your time

1834
01:03:54,309 --> 01:03:52,000
of your military service it was a it was

1835
01:03:56,150 --> 01:03:54,319
a really a very pleasant

1836
01:03:57,190 --> 01:03:56,160
a very professional experience the whole

1837
01:03:59,430 --> 01:03:57,200
time

1838
01:04:01,510 --> 01:03:59,440
uh but there was so there was part one

1839
01:04:03,910 --> 01:04:01,520
was getting there getting inside part

1840
01:04:06,470 --> 01:04:03,920
two was lou interview part three was the

1841
01:04:08,789 --> 01:04:06,480
hour or so with the producer

1842
01:04:10,710 --> 01:04:08,799
and then part four was my

1843
01:04:12,390 --> 01:04:10,720
private conversation that i asked to

1844
01:04:14,069 --> 01:04:12,400
have with lou afterwards

1845
01:04:17,109 --> 01:04:14,079
where we kind of went off

1846
01:04:19,829 --> 01:04:17,119
found a found a quiet room to ourselves

1847
01:04:21,829 --> 01:04:19,839
what was your impression of little

1848
01:04:24,829 --> 01:04:21,839
consummate professional

1849
01:04:29,829 --> 01:04:24,839
consummate defense and intelligence

1850
01:04:32,950 --> 01:04:31,190
since

1851
01:04:34,950 --> 01:04:32,960
that had me questioned

1852
01:04:41,349 --> 01:04:34,960
anything

1853
01:04:43,029 --> 01:04:41,359
i've seen uh i've seen him take a lot of

1854
01:04:44,390 --> 01:04:43,039
gas from people

1855
01:04:46,230 --> 01:04:44,400
uh

1856
01:04:49,109 --> 01:04:46,240
but in my view

1857
01:04:50,549 --> 01:04:49,119
uh like so many people like him uh he's

1858
01:04:54,390 --> 01:04:50,559
he's he's a national i think he's a

1859
01:04:56,950 --> 01:04:54,400
national asset i think in many ways um i

1860
01:04:58,309 --> 01:04:56,960
don't maybe heroes too strong a word

1861
01:04:59,270 --> 01:04:58,319
because i think that's reserved for

1862
01:05:01,109 --> 01:04:59,280
those that

1863
01:05:03,430 --> 01:05:01,119
lay it all on the line and and you know

1864
01:05:06,309 --> 01:05:03,440
this ultimate sacrifice but

1865
01:05:07,589 --> 01:05:06,319
i mean he's uh he's a very serious so

1866
01:05:11,589 --> 01:05:07,599
reminded

1867
01:05:15,750 --> 01:05:11,599
intelligence professional that he's uh

1868
01:05:17,510 --> 01:05:15,760
very interested in making sure

1869
01:05:19,589 --> 01:05:17,520
that

1870
01:05:22,549 --> 01:05:19,599
this is done right

1871
01:05:24,150 --> 01:05:22,559
that this story is done right

1872
01:05:26,309 --> 01:05:24,160
and that

1873
01:05:27,829 --> 01:05:26,319
everybody's equities are protected both

1874
01:05:30,150 --> 01:05:27,839
the ones that

1875
01:05:32,230 --> 01:05:30,160
he and i both do in our jobs and can't

1876
01:05:34,710 --> 01:05:32,240
talk about and other people's

1877
01:05:36,390 --> 01:05:34,720
backgrounds and privacy the whole thing

1878
01:05:37,670 --> 01:05:36,400
is just it's it's handled it's been

1879
01:05:39,190 --> 01:05:37,680
handled

1880
01:05:41,430 --> 01:05:39,200
um

1881
01:05:43,589 --> 01:05:41,440
expertly i know that ttsa made some

1882
01:05:45,910 --> 01:05:43,599
mistakes along the way but lou

1883
01:05:47,109 --> 01:05:45,920
uh is the only one of that group that

1884
01:05:48,789 --> 01:05:47,119
i've met

1885
01:05:52,150 --> 01:05:48,799
and i was i came away very impressed

1886
01:05:53,829 --> 01:05:52,160
with him um

1887
01:05:55,430 --> 01:05:53,839
people people get frustrated with him

1888
01:05:57,190 --> 01:05:55,440
because he can't you know they want him

1889
01:05:58,789 --> 01:05:57,200
to tell everything that he knows i mean

1890
01:06:00,549 --> 01:05:58,799
there are people there are people that

1891
01:06:03,430 --> 01:06:00,559
have called for him

1892
01:06:05,750 --> 01:06:03,440
to just take one for the team

1893
01:06:07,430 --> 01:06:05,760
go to prison just break your security

1894
01:06:09,190 --> 01:06:07,440
oath and just tell us everything you

1895
01:06:10,470 --> 01:06:09,200
know and i know you can relate because

1896
01:06:12,069 --> 01:06:10,480
of your

1897
01:06:13,589 --> 01:06:12,079
your past and

1898
01:06:15,190 --> 01:06:13,599
you know it's just

1899
01:06:18,470 --> 01:06:15,200
to me it's just

1900
01:06:21,270 --> 01:06:18,480
insulting to somebody like him well i

1901
01:06:22,789 --> 01:06:21,280
don't know if it'll be helpful but

1902
01:06:23,990 --> 01:06:22,799
to get to

1903
01:06:25,670 --> 01:06:24,000
uh

1904
01:06:27,430 --> 01:06:25,680
to get

1905
01:06:28,230 --> 01:06:27,440
the credentials

1906
01:06:31,430 --> 01:06:28,240
that

1907
01:06:33,990 --> 01:06:31,440
a cleared professional has is no small

1908
01:06:35,029 --> 01:06:34,000
undertaking it literally can be a sort

1909
01:06:38,710 --> 01:06:35,039
of a

1910
01:06:40,069 --> 01:06:38,720
right

1911
01:06:43,029 --> 01:06:40,079
because when you

1912
01:06:45,510 --> 01:06:43,039
find yourself in a job that requires

1913
01:06:47,589 --> 01:06:45,520
getting that kind of a clearance

1914
01:06:49,109 --> 01:06:47,599
that's just the surface that's just

1915
01:06:50,870 --> 01:06:49,119
that's just a badge that you're going to

1916
01:06:52,470 --> 01:06:50,880
wear around your on your lanyard

1917
01:06:54,150 --> 01:06:52,480
wherever you're at or in your work

1918
01:06:55,829 --> 01:06:54,160
center at the pentagon on the ship

1919
01:06:57,510 --> 01:06:55,839
wherever you are

1920
01:06:58,950 --> 01:06:57,520
that has got your picture and color

1921
01:07:00,870 --> 01:06:58,960
coded and got all kinds of different

1922
01:07:02,150 --> 01:07:00,880
symbols and maybe it's an electronic

1923
01:07:03,510 --> 01:07:02,160
badge that you're going to put into a

1924
01:07:06,390 --> 01:07:03,520
badge reader that's got all this

1925
01:07:08,150 --> 01:07:06,400
information on who you are

1926
01:07:09,670 --> 01:07:08,160
or who the person is that's supposed to

1927
01:07:12,870 --> 01:07:09,680
be wearing that badge

1928
01:07:14,870 --> 01:07:12,880
but what's really important

1929
01:07:17,510 --> 01:07:14,880
is everything that is invested in that

1930
01:07:18,630 --> 01:07:17,520
badge meaning what it takes to get that

1931
01:07:20,390 --> 01:07:18,640
person

1932
01:07:21,750 --> 01:07:20,400
that level of access to sensitive

1933
01:07:24,230 --> 01:07:21,760
information

1934
01:07:25,270 --> 01:07:24,240
the nation is trying to find people that

1935
01:07:29,589 --> 01:07:25,280
they can

1936
01:07:31,829 --> 01:07:29,599
entrust with its most sensitive

1937
01:07:34,069 --> 01:07:31,839
national security information

1938
01:07:35,589 --> 01:07:34,079
they can't unfortunately do that with

1939
01:07:37,109 --> 01:07:35,599
everyone because not everybody is

1940
01:07:39,190 --> 01:07:37,119
trustworthy

1941
01:07:40,789 --> 01:07:39,200
and getting that badge

1942
01:07:43,270 --> 01:07:40,799
getting those tickets or getting that

1943
01:07:45,349 --> 01:07:43,280
clearance or however it's referred to

1944
01:07:48,150 --> 01:07:45,359
it's a commitment and it's not a

1945
01:07:49,510 --> 01:07:48,160
comfortable one because

1946
01:07:51,510 --> 01:07:49,520
i can tell you

1947
01:07:53,109 --> 01:07:51,520
going through polygraph examinations

1948
01:07:54,829 --> 01:07:53,119
every five years

1949
01:07:56,630 --> 01:07:54,839
initially is pretty

1950
01:07:58,630 --> 01:07:56,640
unnerving

1951
01:08:01,510 --> 01:07:58,640
but if you have

1952
01:08:03,430 --> 01:08:01,520
if your conscience is clean

1953
01:08:05,829 --> 01:08:03,440
and you have nothing to hide

1954
01:08:08,230 --> 01:08:05,839
it actually becomes a bit of an of an

1955
01:08:09,670 --> 01:08:08,240
education and an adventure and i got to

1956
01:08:11,109 --> 01:08:09,680
where i enjoyed them

1957
01:08:13,029 --> 01:08:11,119
because i got to hear some stories about

1958
01:08:14,630 --> 01:08:13,039
other people that didn't pass them and

1959
01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:14,640
there's all kinds of weird things like

1960
01:08:17,749 --> 01:08:15,760
that

1961
01:08:20,789 --> 01:08:17,759
but um

1962
01:08:22,789 --> 01:08:20,799
where i'm going with this is that

1963
01:08:24,870 --> 01:08:22,799
to get to the level where you're

1964
01:08:26,709 --> 01:08:24,880
entrusted where you're trustworthy

1965
01:08:29,829 --> 01:08:26,719
that's the most important thing about it

1966
01:08:31,430 --> 01:08:29,839
is is being trustworthy

1967
01:08:33,590 --> 01:08:31,440
to be able to handle this information

1968
01:08:36,309 --> 01:08:33,600
that you're going to be exposed to

1969
01:08:37,269 --> 01:08:36,319
and they want people that are not going

1970
01:08:39,669 --> 01:08:37,279
to

1971
01:08:41,430 --> 01:08:39,679
go out there and compromise national

1972
01:08:44,470 --> 01:08:41,440
security

1973
01:08:46,470 --> 01:08:44,480
otherwise the concept wouldn't work

1974
01:08:48,709 --> 01:08:46,480
and um

1975
01:08:51,110 --> 01:08:48,719
that means a background investigation

1976
01:08:52,390 --> 01:08:51,120
that's going to look at at most of your

1977
01:08:54,070 --> 01:08:52,400
adult life

1978
01:08:55,349 --> 01:08:54,080
when you're young enough coming into a

1979
01:08:56,229 --> 01:08:55,359
new job right you're going to be

1980
01:08:59,189 --> 01:08:56,239
probably

1981
01:09:01,110 --> 01:08:59,199
military or government civilian

1982
01:09:03,590 --> 01:09:01,120
they're going to ask you to put down

1983
01:09:07,349 --> 01:09:03,600
your life history going back 10 years

1984
01:09:09,510 --> 01:09:07,359
and ask you questions like have you ever

1985
01:09:10,789 --> 01:09:09,520
they could ask you in the last 10 years

1986
01:09:14,550 --> 01:09:10,799
have you ever

1987
01:09:17,430 --> 01:09:14,560
means all the way back to the womb right

1988
01:09:19,669 --> 01:09:17,440
so you have what they're looking for is

1989
01:09:23,030 --> 01:09:19,679
truthfulness so you have to go through

1990
01:09:24,950 --> 01:09:23,040
this investigation you have to put down

1991
01:09:27,430 --> 01:09:24,960
legions of people it's not quite that

1992
01:09:29,269 --> 01:09:27,440
big a list but you have to put down a

1993
01:09:31,349 --> 01:09:29,279
large number of references

1994
01:09:33,189 --> 01:09:31,359
that uh people that know you very very

1995
01:09:35,510 --> 01:09:33,199
well and have always known you

1996
01:09:37,910 --> 01:09:35,520
and then it starts and it will last in

1997
01:09:39,590 --> 01:09:37,920
some cases well over a year

1998
01:09:41,110 --> 01:09:39,600
while the investigators out in the field

1999
01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:41,120
go around and knock on doors and find

2000
01:09:44,550 --> 01:09:43,040
out who you if you are who you say you

2001
01:09:45,990 --> 01:09:44,560
are

2002
01:09:47,749 --> 01:09:46,000
and everybody they interview out in the

2003
01:09:49,189 --> 01:09:47,759
field that you put down as a reference

2004
01:09:51,030 --> 01:09:49,199
they will ask

2005
01:09:53,430 --> 01:09:51,040
you and maybe a lot of listeners have

2006
01:09:54,790 --> 01:09:53,440
actually been asked to be a reference

2007
01:09:57,350 --> 01:09:54,800
for someone so they would know what it's

2008
01:09:59,669 --> 01:09:57,360
like to be interviewed

2009
01:10:01,350 --> 01:09:59,679
for someone's security clearance

2010
01:10:02,950 --> 01:10:01,360
they will then ask you

2011
01:10:05,270 --> 01:10:02,960
is there anyone around here that has

2012
01:10:07,270 --> 01:10:05,280
also known so and so for

2013
01:10:09,110 --> 01:10:07,280
this period of time and so they start

2014
01:10:12,390 --> 01:10:09,120
building this tree

2015
01:10:14,630 --> 01:10:12,400
so the list goes from what you gave them

2016
01:10:16,470 --> 01:10:14,640
to is the list grows

2017
01:10:18,630 --> 01:10:16,480
and they interview all these people they

2018
01:10:20,870 --> 01:10:18,640
may reinterview them and they develop

2019
01:10:22,630 --> 01:10:20,880
this picture and this takes a long time

2020
01:10:23,510 --> 01:10:22,640
and then when they build that portfolio

2021
01:10:26,470 --> 01:10:23,520
on you

2022
01:10:27,910 --> 01:10:26,480
you go your file goes to get adjudicated

2023
01:10:30,229 --> 01:10:27,920
and all the while

2024
01:10:32,310 --> 01:10:30,239
uh you're probably not on the job yet

2025
01:10:34,070 --> 01:10:32,320
fully you have some sort of interim

2026
01:10:35,430 --> 01:10:34,080
level so you're not fully able to see

2027
01:10:36,870 --> 01:10:35,440
the sensitive information because you're

2028
01:10:38,870 --> 01:10:36,880
just getting your background done

2029
01:10:40,470 --> 01:10:38,880
background investigation done

2030
01:10:44,550 --> 01:10:40,480
but

2031
01:10:49,270 --> 01:10:47,510
it it's it's an expansive world

2032
01:10:50,790 --> 01:10:49,280
you're you're sort of in awe of some of

2033
01:10:52,709 --> 01:10:50,800
the technologies you're seeing some of

2034
01:10:53,830 --> 01:10:52,719
the most incredible technologies on the

2035
01:10:56,310 --> 01:10:53,840
planet

2036
01:10:58,470 --> 01:10:56,320
some of those incredible concepts ever

2037
01:11:00,149 --> 01:10:58,480
things ever conceived that are being

2038
01:11:02,229 --> 01:11:00,159
done all in the only interest of

2039
01:11:05,030 --> 01:11:02,239
protecting all of us every every day and

2040
01:11:11,430 --> 01:11:06,870
so

2041
01:11:12,390 --> 01:11:11,440
because there is a difference between a

2042
01:11:14,229 --> 01:11:12,400
person

2043
01:11:17,110 --> 01:11:14,239
doing job a

2044
01:11:19,110 --> 01:11:17,120
who is doing it

2045
01:11:21,750 --> 01:11:19,120
with a clearance

2046
01:11:24,830 --> 01:11:21,760
versus doing that same job over here

2047
01:11:27,590 --> 01:11:24,840
for say i don't know walmart corporation

2048
01:11:29,430 --> 01:11:27,600
uh i'll give you an example a supply

2049
01:11:31,510 --> 01:11:29,440
chain management expert

2050
01:11:33,030 --> 01:11:31,520
walmart uses supply chains right to

2051
01:11:34,630 --> 01:11:33,040
source their products to stock their

2052
01:11:36,870 --> 01:11:34,640
shelves

2053
01:11:39,189 --> 01:11:36,880
the government uses supply chains to

2054
01:11:41,590 --> 01:11:39,199
build systems they have to know where

2055
01:11:43,110 --> 01:11:41,600
all these classified parts go

2056
01:11:45,270 --> 01:11:43,120
or came from

2057
01:11:46,790 --> 01:11:45,280
that that become

2058
01:11:49,510 --> 01:11:46,800
whatever system they're building whether

2059
01:11:51,430 --> 01:11:49,520
it's a cannon a ship a satellite or an

2060
01:11:53,350 --> 01:11:51,440
airplane so they have supply chain

2061
01:11:54,470 --> 01:11:53,360
experts but if you have a supply chain

2062
01:11:56,310 --> 01:11:54,480
expert

2063
01:11:57,750 --> 01:11:56,320
working for walmart

2064
01:11:59,750 --> 01:11:57,760
and you have a supply chain expert

2065
01:12:02,470 --> 01:11:59,760
working for a lockheed martin who's

2066
01:12:04,630 --> 01:12:02,480
sourcing very sensitive parts and

2067
01:12:07,270 --> 01:12:04,640
materials to build some sort of

2068
01:12:09,669 --> 01:12:07,280
sensitive system for the government

2069
01:12:11,510 --> 01:12:09,679
i would bet my house that the guy with

2070
01:12:14,070 --> 01:12:11,520
the clearance is going to be making a

2071
01:12:16,310 --> 01:12:14,080
higher income so in other words that inc

2072
01:12:17,270 --> 01:12:16,320
that clearance has value

2073
01:12:18,790 --> 01:12:17,280
so

2074
01:12:20,310 --> 01:12:18,800
i would just say to anyone who thinks

2075
01:12:21,990 --> 01:12:20,320
that someone with a security clearance

2076
01:12:23,430 --> 01:12:22,000
should just spill the beans and take one

2077
01:12:26,790 --> 01:12:23,440
for the team

2078
01:12:29,590 --> 01:12:26,800
and just expose it all

2079
01:12:31,669 --> 01:12:29,600
people have have families to feed right

2080
01:12:35,030 --> 01:12:31,679
you have your life and your livelihood

2081
01:12:37,270 --> 01:12:35,040
your life to live and your livelihood

2082
01:12:39,510 --> 01:12:37,280
you're going to go to jail number one

2083
01:12:40,550 --> 01:12:39,520
you're going to get fired number two

2084
01:12:42,229 --> 01:12:40,560
probably

2085
01:12:43,590 --> 01:12:42,239
not in that order

2086
01:12:45,350 --> 01:12:43,600
um

2087
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:45,360
and your life is ruined

2088
01:12:50,709 --> 01:12:47,679
because you

2089
01:12:52,630 --> 01:12:50,719
as an example were exposed to a

2090
01:12:54,950 --> 01:12:52,640
some sort of sensitive

2091
01:12:57,669 --> 01:12:54,960
ufo recovery program or whatever

2092
01:12:59,270 --> 01:12:57,679
whatever the question of the day is and

2093
01:13:00,950 --> 01:12:59,280
you decide that you're going to tell the

2094
01:13:03,590 --> 01:13:00,960
world

2095
01:13:07,030 --> 01:13:06,149
you tell me

2096
01:13:08,870 --> 01:13:07,040
i agree

2097
01:13:10,790 --> 01:13:08,880
with

2098
01:13:13,270 --> 01:13:10,800
it's it's it's you know it's it's

2099
01:13:15,030 --> 01:13:13,280
i get it it was for me personally i when

2100
01:13:16,709 --> 01:13:15,040
i saw that it was just

2101
01:13:19,189 --> 01:13:16,719
yeah it was disappointing to see people

2102
01:13:21,590 --> 01:13:19,199
calling for lou to do that um

2103
01:13:23,110 --> 01:13:21,600
talking about now after the show was

2104
01:13:24,550 --> 01:13:23,120
recorded your interview and you're one

2105
01:13:25,990 --> 01:13:24,560
on one with lou

2106
01:13:26,870 --> 01:13:26,000
and i know you have some stuff you can

2107
01:13:29,590 --> 01:13:26,880
share

2108
01:13:31,430 --> 01:13:29,600
some drawings that we were talking about

2109
01:13:33,510 --> 01:13:31,440
if you want to

2110
01:13:35,350 --> 01:13:33,520
what did you guys talk about

2111
01:13:38,550 --> 01:13:35,360
whatever you can share

2112
01:13:40,310 --> 01:13:38,560
yeah so uh i'm not gonna say verbatim

2113
01:13:41,910 --> 01:13:40,320
because that what i what i asked him

2114
01:13:43,990 --> 01:13:41,920
exactly it worked for what he said

2115
01:13:46,630 --> 01:13:44,000
because that's that's you know

2116
01:13:48,550 --> 01:13:46,640
right professional courtesy but i first

2117
01:13:49,669 --> 01:13:48,560
of all i asked him

2118
01:13:52,550 --> 01:13:49,679
so

2119
01:13:54,070 --> 01:13:52,560
what did i really see

2120
01:13:56,070 --> 01:13:54,080
and

2121
01:13:58,149 --> 01:13:56,080
he reaches over to the copier machine so

2122
01:14:00,149 --> 01:13:58,159
we go behind this so-called green room

2123
01:14:01,590 --> 01:14:00,159
there in the studio we're back in the

2124
01:14:03,510 --> 01:14:01,600
printer we're back in a little uh

2125
01:14:06,070 --> 01:14:03,520
kitchenette area

2126
01:14:08,709 --> 01:14:06,080
and uh he reaches over to this big

2127
01:14:09,830 --> 01:14:08,719
copier machine and he opens up the paper

2128
01:14:12,149 --> 01:14:09,840
bay

2129
01:14:13,830 --> 01:14:12,159
the tray and he pulls out a couple

2130
01:14:15,750 --> 01:14:13,840
pieces of notebook paper and he has a

2131
01:14:17,110 --> 01:14:15,760
ballpoint pen in his hand

2132
01:14:18,790 --> 01:14:17,120
and so he

2133
01:14:21,510 --> 01:14:18,800
he uh

2134
01:14:23,430 --> 01:14:21,520
he says so so you saw

2135
01:14:25,750 --> 01:14:23,440
you saw what you saw this and i s you

2136
01:14:27,510 --> 01:14:25,760
know so he draws a triangle

2137
01:14:29,189 --> 01:14:27,520
and then he uh

2138
01:14:31,669 --> 01:14:29,199
he says and so it looked like this and

2139
01:14:34,229 --> 01:14:31,679
he draws the little rounded corners and

2140
01:14:35,990 --> 01:14:34,239
he draws the you know the white bright

2141
01:14:36,790 --> 01:14:36,000
areas in each corner

2142
01:14:38,550 --> 01:14:36,800
and

2143
01:14:39,669 --> 01:14:38,560
i'm having the hardest time finding this

2144
01:14:41,270 --> 01:14:39,679
here it is

2145
01:14:43,590 --> 01:14:41,280
um

2146
01:14:46,790 --> 01:14:43,600
and he uh

2147
01:14:49,750 --> 01:14:46,800
he says well um

2148
01:14:53,910 --> 01:14:51,510
nothing definitive he didn't come out

2149
01:14:56,310 --> 01:14:53,920
and tell me and if he did uh you know

2150
01:14:57,669 --> 01:14:56,320
that'd be grounds for going to jail he

2151
01:14:58,550 --> 01:14:57,679
just said you know

2152
01:15:00,550 --> 01:14:58,560
so

2153
01:15:02,790 --> 01:15:00,560
supposedly

2154
01:15:04,790 --> 01:15:02,800
according to observations

2155
01:15:07,110 --> 01:15:04,800
over decades

2156
01:15:10,870 --> 01:15:07,120
these things

2157
01:15:12,470 --> 01:15:10,880
supposedly or tend to operate perhaps

2158
01:15:15,030 --> 01:15:12,480
with uh

2159
01:15:17,189 --> 01:15:15,040
this or that trait and so he

2160
01:15:19,350 --> 01:15:17,199
he drew some of this stuff on a

2161
01:15:20,709 --> 01:15:19,360
piece of copier paper and and then i

2162
01:15:22,229 --> 01:15:20,719
brought it home

2163
01:15:26,229 --> 01:15:22,239
and i uh

2164
01:15:28,950 --> 01:15:26,239
i put it onto a uh a powerpoint slide

2165
01:15:31,590 --> 01:15:28,960
for my own and i you know

2166
01:15:35,110 --> 01:15:31,600
showed my uh

2167
01:15:37,669 --> 01:15:35,120
showed my sons and my wife um so this is

2168
01:15:39,669 --> 01:15:37,679
nothing this is not something lou drew

2169
01:15:40,870 --> 01:15:39,679
right this is something i recreated

2170
01:15:43,030 --> 01:15:40,880
based on

2171
01:15:44,149 --> 01:15:43,040
talk and lou didn't confirm anything to

2172
01:15:45,430 --> 01:15:44,159
me

2173
01:15:46,470 --> 01:15:45,440
this was all

2174
01:15:47,270 --> 01:15:46,480
under

2175
01:15:48,950 --> 01:15:47,280
uh

2176
01:15:50,229 --> 01:15:48,960
under the auspices of what's been

2177
01:15:51,110 --> 01:15:50,239
observed

2178
01:15:52,950 --> 01:15:51,120
okay

2179
01:15:54,070 --> 01:15:52,960
so this was like lou and i further

2180
01:15:54,950 --> 01:15:54,080
thinking

2181
01:15:56,550 --> 01:15:54,960
along

2182
01:15:58,070 --> 01:15:56,560
together because we weren't together

2183
01:16:00,390 --> 01:15:58,080
alone when he was interviewing me now

2184
01:16:02,950 --> 01:16:00,400
we're to go alone together in this room

2185
01:16:05,189 --> 01:16:02,960
behind closed doors it's not a skiff we

2186
01:16:06,870 --> 01:16:05,199
can't talk about classified stuff

2187
01:16:08,630 --> 01:16:06,880
but it's a chance to talk privately and

2188
01:16:09,669 --> 01:16:08,640
put our thoughts together

2189
01:16:13,750 --> 01:16:09,679
so

2190
01:16:15,189 --> 01:16:13,760
goes what's the most prominent

2191
01:16:16,950 --> 01:16:15,199
ufo type

2192
01:16:19,270 --> 01:16:16,960
going back in history that's that's

2193
01:16:21,590 --> 01:16:19,280
cited and i i really didn't know where

2194
01:16:24,149 --> 01:16:21,600
he was going at the time and i found it

2195
01:16:25,910 --> 01:16:24,159
it clicked and i said a flying disc and

2196
01:16:27,990 --> 01:16:25,920
he said yes so he drew

2197
01:16:30,310 --> 01:16:28,000
a disc

2198
01:16:31,590 --> 01:16:30,320
and then he said

2199
01:16:32,709 --> 01:16:31,600
so

2200
01:16:34,870 --> 01:16:32,719
based on

2201
01:16:36,310 --> 01:16:34,880
observed effects on the ground landing

2202
01:16:38,070 --> 01:16:36,320
case traces

2203
01:16:39,669 --> 01:16:38,080
landing trace cases

2204
01:16:41,910 --> 01:16:39,679
and uh

2205
01:16:43,830 --> 01:16:41,920
and you know car radios and headlights

2206
01:16:45,990 --> 01:16:43,840
shutting off and car engines stopping

2207
01:16:48,390 --> 01:16:46,000
and so on and so forth these things

2208
01:16:50,310 --> 01:16:48,400
apparently emit some have some sort of a

2209
01:16:51,910 --> 01:16:50,320
propulsion system that emits some sort

2210
01:16:54,870 --> 01:16:51,920
of a field

2211
01:16:57,750 --> 01:16:54,880
an electromagnetic field so he he drew

2212
01:16:59,750 --> 01:16:57,760
the ufo disc and then he drew this this

2213
01:17:01,110 --> 01:16:59,760
is the field that it emits

2214
01:17:02,950 --> 01:17:01,120
and then you know if you go back through

2215
01:17:03,910 --> 01:17:02,960
history and you read reports of people

2216
01:17:06,149 --> 01:17:03,920
that had

2217
01:17:08,310 --> 01:17:06,159
landing sightings and and got close to

2218
01:17:10,550 --> 01:17:08,320
them the closer you are you know people

2219
01:17:12,950 --> 01:17:10,560
report electrostatic electrostatic

2220
01:17:14,630 --> 01:17:12,960
effects hair standing on end crackling

2221
01:17:16,470 --> 01:17:14,640
in the air humming

2222
01:17:20,070 --> 01:17:16,480
buzzing etc

2223
01:17:22,630 --> 01:17:20,080
so so this field extends out so far from

2224
01:17:24,630 --> 01:17:22,640
the vehicle and apparently it can change

2225
01:17:26,709 --> 01:17:24,640
uh and we're not even talking about

2226
01:17:27,709 --> 01:17:26,719
luminosity and things of that nature

2227
01:17:29,990 --> 01:17:27,719
we're just talking about the the

2228
01:17:30,790 --> 01:17:30,000
electromagnetic field around it let's

2229
01:17:33,030 --> 01:17:30,800
say

2230
01:17:35,110 --> 01:17:33,040
while it's just at moderate power so

2231
01:17:38,149 --> 01:17:35,120
then he says

2232
01:17:40,070 --> 01:17:38,159
what's the second most predominant

2233
01:17:42,709 --> 01:17:40,080
shape that cited and i really had no

2234
01:17:44,390 --> 01:17:42,719
idea where he was going uh i i said i

2235
01:17:45,590 --> 01:17:44,400
don't know what donut or i didn't know

2236
01:17:47,510 --> 01:17:45,600
where to go with that

2237
01:17:49,510 --> 01:17:47,520
and he said um

2238
01:17:51,750 --> 01:17:49,520
he said well no it's uh

2239
01:17:53,270 --> 01:17:51,760
it's it's a cigar so let me bring up

2240
01:17:54,790 --> 01:17:53,280
this cigar

2241
01:17:56,790 --> 01:17:54,800
um

2242
01:17:58,229 --> 01:17:56,800
so i have these on two separate two

2243
01:18:00,390 --> 01:17:58,239
separate

2244
01:18:02,149 --> 01:18:00,400
renditions here

2245
01:18:05,270 --> 01:18:02,159
so then he drew he drew sort of a

2246
01:18:07,030 --> 01:18:05,280
torpedo shape cigar torpedo shape and he

2247
01:18:09,270 --> 01:18:07,040
said um

2248
01:18:11,910 --> 01:18:09,280
so conceivably

2249
01:18:13,350 --> 01:18:11,920
uh base based on observations right over

2250
01:18:16,149 --> 01:18:13,360
the decades

2251
01:18:18,709 --> 01:18:16,159
uh there's a propulsion source

2252
01:18:21,830 --> 01:18:18,719
conceivably in the front end in other

2253
01:18:23,990 --> 01:18:21,840
words you've gone from a circle

2254
01:18:25,750 --> 01:18:24,000
you've gone from a circle requiring one

2255
01:18:27,030 --> 01:18:25,760
propulsion

2256
01:18:29,430 --> 01:18:27,040
system

2257
01:18:31,830 --> 01:18:29,440
to a different shaped vehicle perhaps

2258
01:18:32,709 --> 01:18:31,840
for some different purpose that's cigar

2259
01:18:35,510 --> 01:18:32,719
shaped

2260
01:18:37,270 --> 01:18:35,520
and and and because that field is not

2261
01:18:38,229 --> 01:18:37,280
sufficient enough if you put it in the

2262
01:18:40,470 --> 01:18:38,239
center

2263
01:18:43,110 --> 01:18:40,480
to encapsulate the entire vehicle

2264
01:18:45,510 --> 01:18:43,120
uh maybe it's made it has two

2265
01:18:47,270 --> 01:18:45,520
and within this field they overlap like

2266
01:18:48,870 --> 01:18:47,280
a venn diagram

2267
01:18:51,350 --> 01:18:48,880
and provide

2268
01:18:53,110 --> 01:18:51,360
mass cancellation negative mass

2269
01:18:56,390 --> 01:18:53,120
anti-gravity however you want to say it

2270
01:18:58,630 --> 01:18:56,400
right so so this is conceivably how a

2271
01:19:01,750 --> 01:18:58,640
cigar-shaped vehicle

2272
01:19:03,830 --> 01:19:01,760
how it's configuration as far as again

2273
01:19:04,950 --> 01:19:03,840
this is conceivably right nothing

2274
01:19:06,950 --> 01:19:04,960
confirmed

2275
01:19:09,830 --> 01:19:06,960
so then getting to answer my question

2276
01:19:14,149 --> 01:19:09,840
when i said so what did i see

2277
01:19:18,229 --> 01:19:16,070
what would be the shape

2278
01:19:20,709 --> 01:19:18,239
given my background in aviation science

2279
01:19:23,350 --> 01:19:20,719
and so forth would be the optimum shape

2280
01:19:25,189 --> 01:19:23,360
given what he had just talked about

2281
01:19:27,830 --> 01:19:25,199
for a vehicle that'd be capable of

2282
01:19:29,030 --> 01:19:27,840
carrying say a crew

2283
01:19:38,550 --> 01:19:29,040
or

2284
01:19:40,550 --> 01:19:38,560
equipment

2285
01:19:42,390 --> 01:19:40,560
it it would it would make more sense if

2286
01:19:43,910 --> 01:19:42,400
it was a triangle

2287
01:19:45,510 --> 01:19:43,920
and then

2288
01:19:47,910 --> 01:19:45,520
you would have

2289
01:19:49,830 --> 01:19:47,920
a vehicle the vehicle would have

2290
01:19:51,270 --> 01:19:49,840
if you're using the same example as the

2291
01:19:53,030 --> 01:19:51,280
ufo here

2292
01:19:54,790 --> 01:19:53,040
you would have an engine or propulsion

2293
01:19:57,669 --> 01:19:54,800
system here

2294
01:20:00,550 --> 01:19:57,679
here and here their fields of effect

2295
01:20:02,709 --> 01:20:00,560
would overlap like a venn diagram

2296
01:20:05,030 --> 01:20:02,719
and they would apparently

2297
01:20:06,470 --> 01:20:05,040
based on observations

2298
01:20:10,709 --> 01:20:06,480
could apparently

2299
01:20:12,310 --> 01:20:10,719
negate mass or substantially reduce mass

2300
01:20:14,709 --> 01:20:12,320
but

2301
01:20:17,510 --> 01:20:14,719
the not my sighting because perhaps it

2302
01:20:20,149 --> 01:20:17,520
was too quick too fleeting and maybe too

2303
01:20:21,830 --> 01:20:20,159
hazy i didn't notice anything

2304
01:20:23,750 --> 01:20:21,840
uh in the center of the vehicle but

2305
01:20:25,910 --> 01:20:23,760
apparently lots of other witnesses had

2306
01:20:28,070 --> 01:20:25,920
and we talked about that so there's a

2307
01:20:29,910 --> 01:20:28,080
perhaps a fourth power plant

2308
01:20:35,270 --> 01:20:29,920
in the center here

2309
01:20:38,470 --> 01:20:37,830
mass cancellation and this center engine

2310
01:20:40,390 --> 01:20:38,480
or

2311
01:20:42,229 --> 01:20:40,400
what have you would

2312
01:20:44,229 --> 01:20:42,239
provide

2313
01:20:48,629 --> 01:20:44,239
directional control in other words to

2314
01:20:53,830 --> 01:20:51,110
that was sort of the extent of it

2315
01:20:55,990 --> 01:20:53,840
was was trying to you know

2316
01:20:58,149 --> 01:20:56,000
i don't know if what i saw was man-made

2317
01:21:00,390 --> 01:20:58,159
i i suspect it was but like there's no

2318
01:21:01,590 --> 01:21:00,400
way for me to prove that lots of other

2319
01:21:03,590 --> 01:21:01,600
people even some other people

2320
01:21:04,790 --> 01:21:03,600
interviewed on the show saw triangles

2321
01:21:07,110 --> 01:21:04,800
that

2322
01:21:09,030 --> 01:21:07,120
certainly didn't behave like they had

2323
01:21:10,149 --> 01:21:09,040
you know u.s aircrewmen and them flying

2324
01:21:12,390 --> 01:21:10,159
them around

2325
01:21:14,790 --> 01:21:12,400
they behaved quite oddly

2326
01:21:18,470 --> 01:21:14,800
and i didn't see mine zip off

2327
01:21:20,629 --> 01:21:18,480
over the horizon in an instant right so

2328
01:21:21,750 --> 01:21:20,639
um

2329
01:21:23,750 --> 01:21:21,760
who knows

2330
01:21:26,229 --> 01:21:23,760
it's just pretty interesting

2331
01:21:28,310 --> 01:21:26,239
uh their their theories are just like

2332
01:21:29,669 --> 01:21:28,320
you know some all of the stuff though if

2333
01:21:31,270 --> 01:21:29,679
you look at these shapes of these

2334
01:21:33,030 --> 01:21:31,280
vehicles that we just talked about the

2335
01:21:33,830 --> 01:21:33,040
disc and the triangle

2336
01:21:34,870 --> 01:21:33,840
um

2337
01:21:36,629 --> 01:21:34,880
and some of their performance

2338
01:21:38,870 --> 01:21:36,639
characteristics

2339
01:21:40,790 --> 01:21:38,880
you hear lots of people of late even

2340
01:21:42,870 --> 01:21:40,800
talking about how they

2341
01:21:44,070 --> 01:21:42,880
instantaneous acceleration right angle

2342
01:21:45,110 --> 01:21:44,080
turns

2343
01:21:47,270 --> 01:21:45,120
um

2344
01:21:49,430 --> 01:21:47,280
but if you go back to

2345
01:21:51,189 --> 01:21:49,440
research that was on the 50s and 60s by

2346
01:21:52,790 --> 01:21:51,199
nasa

2347
01:21:55,189 --> 01:21:52,800
particularly reading the book by paul

2348
01:21:57,669 --> 01:21:55,199
hill who was an aerodynamicist

2349
01:22:00,470 --> 01:21:57,679
at nasa langley what was at the time the

2350
01:22:02,950 --> 01:22:00,480
naca before it was uh

2351
01:22:04,790 --> 01:22:02,960
before naca became nasa

2352
01:22:06,470 --> 01:22:04,800
he was studying this and he had access

2353
01:22:08,550 --> 01:22:06,480
to all the air force's most sensitive

2354
01:22:11,430 --> 01:22:08,560
ufo reporting

2355
01:22:13,270 --> 01:22:11,440
and he apparently all but had the exact

2356
01:22:14,790 --> 01:22:13,280
propulsion system and the occupants

2357
01:22:16,709 --> 01:22:14,800
figured out

2358
01:22:18,550 --> 01:22:16,719
if you if you read that book which he

2359
01:22:20,149 --> 01:22:18,560
was disallowed from publishing while he

2360
01:22:22,390 --> 01:22:20,159
was employed by nasa it was later

2361
01:22:24,149 --> 01:22:22,400
published by his daughter julie

2362
01:22:26,149 --> 01:22:24,159
posthumously

2363
01:22:27,110 --> 01:22:26,159
um

2364
01:22:27,910 --> 01:22:27,120
he knew

2365
01:22:33,910 --> 01:22:27,920
the

2366
01:22:35,270 --> 01:22:33,920
which is apparently based on power level

2367
01:22:36,790 --> 01:22:35,280
and he knew that they weren't breaking

2368
01:22:39,350 --> 01:22:36,800
laws of physics

2369
01:22:41,910 --> 01:22:39,360
that their data showed and they proved

2370
01:22:44,629 --> 01:22:41,920
that these guys are actually

2371
01:22:47,110 --> 01:22:44,639
much like a helicopter they tilt forward

2372
01:22:48,390 --> 01:22:47,120
to start moving forward they pitch back

2373
01:22:50,709 --> 01:22:48,400
to stop

2374
01:22:52,870 --> 01:22:50,719
they bank right to turn right they bank

2375
01:22:53,990 --> 01:22:52,880
left eternal they don't have to at all

2376
01:22:56,629 --> 01:22:54,000
times

2377
01:22:58,950 --> 01:22:56,639
but when observed and stated to have

2378
01:23:00,470 --> 01:22:58,960
done one thing it's it's apparently

2379
01:23:02,229 --> 01:23:00,480
research has shown the observation have

2380
01:23:04,390 --> 01:23:02,239
shown that they're actually behaving

2381
01:23:06,470 --> 01:23:04,400
within the bounds of known physics and

2382
01:23:08,149 --> 01:23:06,480
they take this um

2383
01:23:09,430 --> 01:23:08,159
uh

2384
01:23:11,910 --> 01:23:09,440
sort of a

2385
01:23:14,629 --> 01:23:11,920
the most convenient

2386
01:23:16,629 --> 01:23:14,639
these are my words but this it's sort of

2387
01:23:19,270 --> 01:23:16,639
to go from point a to point b

2388
01:23:22,070 --> 01:23:19,280
uh the most convenient ballistic arc to

2389
01:23:24,709 --> 01:23:22,080
get there and i believe that uh

2390
01:23:26,149 --> 01:23:24,719
what's the twitter handle uap theory a

2391
01:23:28,310 --> 01:23:26,159
few weeks ago

2392
01:23:31,270 --> 01:23:28,320
i think chris

2393
01:23:32,950 --> 01:23:31,280
chris melton retweeted this link

2394
01:23:36,550 --> 01:23:32,960
to the website

2395
01:23:39,430 --> 01:23:36,560
for the twitter handle of uap theory

2396
01:23:41,030 --> 01:23:39,440
and he was describing

2397
01:23:43,830 --> 01:23:41,040
um

2398
01:23:44,950 --> 01:23:43,840
the characteristics of uap and he didn't

2399
01:23:46,070 --> 01:23:44,960
call it

2400
01:23:48,870 --> 01:23:46,080
a uh

2401
01:23:51,350 --> 01:23:48,880
ballistic arc he called it something

2402
01:23:53,510 --> 01:23:51,360
else but it's essentially the same thing

2403
01:23:55,510 --> 01:23:53,520
um

2404
01:23:57,189 --> 01:23:55,520
that they're that they're operating

2405
01:23:58,550 --> 01:23:57,199
within the bounds of physics they're

2406
01:24:00,629 --> 01:23:58,560
just doing it

2407
01:24:04,229 --> 01:24:00,639
so quickly

2408
01:24:06,470 --> 01:24:04,239
that uh we don't it's not observable to

2409
01:24:09,030 --> 01:24:06,480
the human eye but that's you know people

2410
01:24:10,390 --> 01:24:09,040
often ask me man i am really interested

2411
01:24:11,590 --> 01:24:10,400
in this stuff and i i don't know

2412
01:24:13,030 --> 01:24:11,600
anything about it

2413
01:24:13,910 --> 01:24:13,040
where should i uh

2414
01:24:16,470 --> 01:24:13,920
you know

2415
01:24:18,229 --> 01:24:16,480
start looking what should i read

2416
01:24:20,070 --> 01:24:18,239
and i tell everybody that asked me that

2417
01:24:21,510 --> 01:24:20,080
question um

2418
01:24:23,430 --> 01:24:21,520
the first book i would read is

2419
01:24:25,590 --> 01:24:23,440
unconventional flying objects by paul

2420
01:24:26,870 --> 01:24:25,600
hill yeah and you're not doing i've had

2421
01:24:28,950 --> 01:24:26,880
other people recommend that book and

2422
01:24:32,070 --> 01:24:28,960
it's been on my list for so long michael

2423
01:24:34,149 --> 01:24:32,080
i mean i do need to read it i i know his

2424
01:24:35,110 --> 01:24:34,159
his daughter published it after he died

2425
01:24:39,270 --> 01:24:35,120
right

2426
01:24:40,149 --> 01:24:39,280
yeah it's uh

2427
01:24:43,910 --> 01:24:40,159
it's

2428
01:24:46,470 --> 01:24:43,920
out not just on a whim i mean it was

2429
01:24:49,189 --> 01:24:46,480
very some very serious

2430
01:24:51,189 --> 01:24:49,199
intensive research and he and he here's

2431
01:24:52,629 --> 01:24:51,199
the thing about his his research is he

2432
01:24:54,550 --> 01:24:52,639
shows the work

2433
01:24:57,030 --> 01:24:54,560
he shows all the math

2434
01:25:00,149 --> 01:24:57,040
he shows all the test results

2435
01:25:02,470 --> 01:25:00,159
uh it is if if nothing else it's

2436
01:25:03,590 --> 01:25:02,480
comprehensive and it's it's exceedingly

2437
01:25:05,830 --> 01:25:03,600
detailed

2438
01:25:08,229 --> 01:25:05,840
and so that's that's the first one

2439
01:25:10,149 --> 01:25:08,239
and then you uh you can kind of come

2440
01:25:12,870 --> 01:25:10,159
away from reading some of these

2441
01:25:13,990 --> 01:25:12,880
farcical claims more fantastical stuff

2442
01:25:15,510 --> 01:25:14,000
if you're wondering whether to believe

2443
01:25:17,270 --> 01:25:15,520
it or not you have something to sort of

2444
01:25:19,510 --> 01:25:17,280
balance it against whether you're

2445
01:25:21,350 --> 01:25:19,520
looking at something on twitter youtube

2446
01:25:22,870 --> 01:25:21,360
reddit or what have you it's just it's

2447
01:25:24,550 --> 01:25:22,880
it's an excellent

2448
01:25:25,350 --> 01:25:24,560
it you know it ought to be required

2449
01:25:28,709 --> 01:25:25,360
reading

2450
01:25:30,390 --> 01:25:28,719
make a note of this the second thing i

2451
01:25:32,550 --> 01:25:30,400
always tell people is this book by

2452
01:25:34,950 --> 01:25:32,560
michael swords and company

2453
01:25:36,390 --> 01:25:34,960
there's michael swords and six other

2454
01:25:37,750 --> 01:25:36,400
authors

2455
01:25:39,830 --> 01:25:37,760
came out

2456
01:25:42,070 --> 01:25:39,840
four or five years ago it's called ufos

2457
01:25:43,510 --> 01:25:42,080
and government and you told me about it

2458
01:25:44,870 --> 01:25:43,520
yeah you told me about it i had never

2459
01:25:46,070 --> 01:25:44,880
heard about it

2460
01:25:47,750 --> 01:25:46,080
it is

2461
01:25:50,790 --> 01:25:47,760
uh

2462
01:25:52,790 --> 01:25:50,800
completely and absolutely only about the

2463
01:25:58,390 --> 01:25:52,800
ufo

2464
01:26:01,350 --> 01:25:58,400
in the words of the u.s government

2465
01:26:04,070 --> 01:26:01,360
so there are over 600 pages

2466
01:26:06,550 --> 01:26:04,080
like over a thousand citations

2467
01:26:08,950 --> 01:26:06,560
it is the only book of its kind that is

2468
01:26:11,270 --> 01:26:08,960
recommended and authorized in academic

2469
01:26:12,470 --> 01:26:11,280
libraries at colleges and universities

2470
01:26:15,430 --> 01:26:12,480
around the world

2471
01:26:19,510 --> 01:26:15,440
it is a very serious ufo book

2472
01:26:21,990 --> 01:26:19,520
and it's comprised of communications

2473
01:26:24,870 --> 01:26:22,000
of government

2474
01:26:28,629 --> 01:26:24,880
employees and military

2475
01:26:34,149 --> 01:26:31,669
so if you want to know you know it's

2476
01:26:36,629 --> 01:26:34,159
to say it's fascinating is is

2477
01:26:38,950 --> 01:26:36,639
is an understatement

2478
01:26:41,270 --> 01:26:38,960
it's you know so so paul hill's book is

2479
01:26:43,030 --> 01:26:41,280
sort of like your nuts and bolts if you

2480
01:26:44,709 --> 01:26:43,040
want to know are they real well the

2481
01:26:47,189 --> 01:26:44,719
navy's com the government's come out and

2482
01:26:48,870 --> 01:26:47,199
confirm now that that they're real if

2483
01:26:49,669 --> 01:26:48,880
you want to know why they look like they

2484
01:26:52,390 --> 01:26:49,679
do

2485
01:26:54,310 --> 01:26:52,400
why they fly like they fly

2486
01:26:55,590 --> 01:26:54,320
and uh

2487
01:26:57,669 --> 01:26:55,600
and all of that

2488
01:26:59,510 --> 01:26:57,679
then paul hill apparently had it had it

2489
01:27:03,669 --> 01:26:59,520
pretty well nailed back in the in the

2490
01:27:05,189 --> 01:27:03,679
late 60s very early 70s

2491
01:27:07,910 --> 01:27:05,199
going back to his research all the way

2492
01:27:09,750 --> 01:27:07,920
back in the 50s

2493
01:27:11,830 --> 01:27:09,760
ufo's in government

2494
01:27:13,590 --> 01:27:11,840
it's it's more of the it's the

2495
01:27:15,430 --> 01:27:13,600
government's reaction

2496
01:27:17,750 --> 01:27:15,440
in the government's own words through

2497
01:27:21,350 --> 01:27:17,760
memos

2498
01:27:25,990 --> 01:27:24,149
from u.s government

2499
01:27:28,550 --> 01:27:26,000
organizations

2500
01:27:29,669 --> 01:27:28,560
air force commanders generals admirals

2501
01:27:32,709 --> 01:27:29,679
you name it

2502
01:27:34,870 --> 01:27:32,719
it's it's the government's own response

2503
01:27:37,430 --> 01:27:34,880
to the phenomena

2504
01:27:40,070 --> 01:27:37,440
and um

2505
01:27:43,430 --> 01:27:40,080
and how they set policy around it anyway

2506
01:27:45,750 --> 01:27:43,440
here's paul hill's book just so people

2507
01:27:47,270 --> 01:27:45,760
can see and yeah

2508
01:27:49,830 --> 01:27:47,280
i'm glad you brought this up because

2509
01:27:51,910 --> 01:27:49,840
right away i i think when people heard

2510
01:27:53,990 --> 01:27:51,920
well he thinks he thinks his sighting

2511
01:27:57,030 --> 01:27:54,000
was human tech

2512
01:27:58,550 --> 01:27:57,040
just make it clear you do not think

2513
01:28:00,870 --> 01:27:58,560
all ufos

2514
01:28:02,950 --> 01:28:00,880
are human tech just to make it clear for

2515
01:28:04,870 --> 01:28:02,960
people who might think that

2516
01:28:06,229 --> 01:28:04,880
oh yeah uh

2517
01:28:07,990 --> 01:28:06,239
you know i don't know if you want to go

2518
01:28:12,070 --> 01:28:08,000
down that path or not i mean i don't

2519
01:28:17,110 --> 01:28:14,870
my this is my my opinion

2520
01:28:18,709 --> 01:28:17,120
and um

2521
01:28:21,030 --> 01:28:18,719
but you know the current effort for

2522
01:28:23,430 --> 01:28:21,040
disclosure and all of that and lou what

2523
01:28:25,750 --> 01:28:23,440
lou is doing what chris is doing and and

2524
01:28:26,790 --> 01:28:25,760
as comment tom delong at ttsa and all of

2525
01:28:29,350 --> 01:28:26,800
that

2526
01:28:32,229 --> 01:28:29,360
um

2527
01:28:34,709 --> 01:28:32,239
that's one track right

2528
01:28:38,870 --> 01:28:34,719
but i don't believe for one minute

2529
01:28:43,910 --> 01:28:41,590
i agree i agree that somebody i don't

2530
01:28:47,030 --> 01:28:43,920
know how many people somebody somewhere

2531
01:28:49,270 --> 01:28:47,040
in our government knows a lot more

2532
01:28:50,870 --> 01:28:49,280
than what we're hearing i mean

2533
01:28:52,550 --> 01:28:50,880
i don't know who it is and i don't know

2534
01:28:54,870 --> 01:28:52,560
how much they know i don't know if they

2535
01:28:57,110 --> 01:28:54,880
i don't think they know intentions but i

2536
01:28:59,189 --> 01:28:57,120
think they may know

2537
01:29:00,870 --> 01:28:59,199
details of who is visiting us you know

2538
01:29:02,870 --> 01:29:00,880
what type of beings or at least what

2539
01:29:04,950 --> 01:29:02,880
they look like to prove where something

2540
01:29:06,390 --> 01:29:04,960
is from origin is

2541
01:29:07,830 --> 01:29:06,400
is difficult but

2542
01:29:09,189 --> 01:29:07,840
somewhere somewhere in some black

2543
01:29:12,149 --> 01:29:09,199
project

2544
01:29:13,990 --> 01:29:12,159
i think they have a ton of data

2545
01:29:15,590 --> 01:29:14,000
that would really open our eyes and

2546
01:29:17,910 --> 01:29:15,600
educate us on what we're dealing with

2547
01:29:20,070 --> 01:29:17,920
whether or not we ever see it

2548
01:29:22,950 --> 01:29:20,080
in my lifetime i i don't i'm skeptical

2549
01:29:26,709 --> 01:29:25,030
well it's uh it's apparently related to

2550
01:29:29,910 --> 01:29:26,719
national security

2551
01:29:31,830 --> 01:29:29,920
right if it was a simple story

2552
01:29:33,590 --> 01:29:31,840
then why all the

2553
01:29:37,830 --> 01:29:33,600
camouflage

2554
01:29:43,910 --> 01:29:40,950
so it's not so simple

2555
01:29:46,550 --> 01:29:43,920
the other problem is is they can't

2556
01:29:47,830 --> 01:29:46,560
they can't tell us

2557
01:29:51,350 --> 01:29:47,840
the public

2558
01:29:53,350 --> 01:29:51,360
without also telling our adversaries

2559
01:29:56,310 --> 01:29:53,360
right so there's that challenge

2560
01:29:58,310 --> 01:29:56,320
and then how do you tell the story

2561
01:30:00,790 --> 01:29:58,320
the way i look at it is

2562
01:30:03,030 --> 01:30:00,800
just like in intelligence analysis

2563
01:30:05,270 --> 01:30:03,040
when information first comes in

2564
01:30:07,990 --> 01:30:05,280
whatever the information is

2565
01:30:09,910 --> 01:30:08,000
if it's if it's information

2566
01:30:13,350 --> 01:30:09,920
that is not a

2567
01:30:16,229 --> 01:30:13,360
verifiable fact on its face like

2568
01:30:17,910 --> 01:30:16,239
um there was just a massive explosion at

2569
01:30:19,669 --> 01:30:17,920
these coordinates

2570
01:30:20,470 --> 01:30:19,679
right that's that's that's something

2571
01:30:21,750 --> 01:30:20,480
pretty

2572
01:30:23,430 --> 01:30:21,760
discreet

2573
01:30:25,750 --> 01:30:23,440
pretty verifiable

2574
01:30:27,270 --> 01:30:25,760
pretty you know concrete

2575
01:30:28,550 --> 01:30:27,280
lots of evidence

2576
01:30:29,990 --> 01:30:28,560
and all of that

2577
01:30:30,950 --> 01:30:30,000
but if it's a

2578
01:30:32,709 --> 01:30:30,960
tale

2579
01:30:34,709 --> 01:30:32,719
or a story

2580
01:30:36,709 --> 01:30:34,719
or a report

2581
01:30:38,709 --> 01:30:36,719
then what

2582
01:30:40,790 --> 01:30:38,719
um

2583
01:30:41,669 --> 01:30:40,800
it's it's it's a bigger challenge around

2584
01:30:44,229 --> 01:30:41,679
that

2585
01:30:49,189 --> 01:30:46,070
how do you tell part of it without

2586
01:30:51,669 --> 01:30:49,199
telling the other part any other part

2587
01:30:53,750 --> 01:30:51,679
which which end of the can of worms do

2588
01:30:56,070 --> 01:30:53,760
you open

2589
01:30:58,629 --> 01:30:56,080
okay

2590
01:31:00,790 --> 01:30:58,639
can you even

2591
01:31:03,669 --> 01:31:00,800
pierce the can

2592
01:31:05,990 --> 01:31:03,679
in any pretense of opening it at all

2593
01:31:07,830 --> 01:31:06,000
without having to open the whole thing

2594
01:31:10,149 --> 01:31:07,840
and then so that where i'm going with

2595
01:31:11,910 --> 01:31:10,159
this is the truth is usually so so

2596
01:31:13,030 --> 01:31:11,920
outside of those concrete facts that

2597
01:31:15,350 --> 01:31:13,040
occur

2598
01:31:19,750 --> 01:31:15,360
uh the sun came up the sun went down the

2599
01:31:23,750 --> 01:31:21,750
if it's something

2600
01:31:25,910 --> 01:31:23,760
that has to be

2601
01:31:26,870 --> 01:31:25,920
verified

2602
01:31:29,350 --> 01:31:26,880
then

2603
01:31:31,350 --> 01:31:29,360
you you have to

2604
01:31:33,830 --> 01:31:31,360
go to lengths

2605
01:31:35,750 --> 01:31:33,840
to try to question the quality of the

2606
01:31:37,669 --> 01:31:35,760
information

2607
01:31:39,030 --> 01:31:37,679
and and verify it

2608
01:31:44,390 --> 01:31:39,040
so

2609
01:31:46,470 --> 01:31:44,400
middle of everything we've all heard

2610
01:31:49,030 --> 01:31:46,480
instead of being one extreme or the

2611
01:31:50,870 --> 01:31:49,040
other like we

2612
01:31:52,310 --> 01:31:50,880
yeah they're flying around our nuclear

2613
01:31:54,550 --> 01:31:52,320
installations and they're flying around

2614
01:31:56,470 --> 01:31:54,560
our aircraft carriers we're seeing them

2615
01:31:58,870 --> 01:31:56,480
out over the ranges but we don't know

2616
01:32:00,470 --> 01:31:58,880
what they are

2617
01:32:01,830 --> 01:32:00,480
to

2618
01:32:03,910 --> 01:32:01,840
yeah

2619
01:32:06,470 --> 01:32:03,920
we do know what they are

2620
01:32:08,229 --> 01:32:06,480
and and what they are and why they're

2621
01:32:09,510 --> 01:32:08,239
here

2622
01:32:13,510 --> 01:32:09,520
uh

2623
01:32:16,070 --> 01:32:13,520
as it relates to us it may not be

2624
01:32:17,669 --> 01:32:16,080
it might be pretty unsettling

2625
01:32:19,270 --> 01:32:17,679
might be i don't know

2626
01:32:20,709 --> 01:32:19,280
right i'm in the same boat i don't know

2627
01:32:22,310 --> 01:32:20,719
and i don't claim to know and there are

2628
01:32:25,750 --> 01:32:22,320
people that believe it's our space

2629
01:32:28,070 --> 01:32:25,760
brothers here to help us evolve and

2630
01:32:29,910 --> 01:32:28,080
you know i don't know i have lots of

2631
01:32:32,070 --> 01:32:29,920
speculation i have lots of opinions we

2632
01:32:33,430 --> 01:32:32,080
discussed it um

2633
01:32:35,750 --> 01:32:33,440
on another note

2634
01:32:37,189 --> 01:32:35,760
nicole was asking

2635
01:32:40,390 --> 01:32:37,199
so what's your opinion on reverse

2636
01:32:42,629 --> 01:32:40,400
engineering if we have any craft

2637
01:32:45,830 --> 01:32:42,639
the whole crash retrievals and reverse

2638
01:32:48,070 --> 01:32:45,840
engineering topic which i am

2639
01:32:49,910 --> 01:32:48,080
which i never was interested not not

2640
01:32:51,990 --> 01:32:49,920
that i wasn't interested if i never dove

2641
01:32:53,350 --> 01:32:52,000
into it until the wilson davis leak

2642
01:32:55,430 --> 01:32:53,360
happened a couple years ago and then i'm

2643
01:32:58,070 --> 01:32:55,440
like okay here we go and i still need to

2644
01:33:00,229 --> 01:32:58,080
do a lot more reading on the subject i

2645
01:33:01,590 --> 01:33:00,239
need to read leonard stringfellow's work

2646
01:33:03,110 --> 01:33:01,600
so what is your opinion on crash

2647
01:33:04,390 --> 01:33:03,120
retrievals

2648
01:33:05,830 --> 01:33:04,400
and if you want to jump into wilson

2649
01:33:08,070 --> 01:33:05,840
davis that's fine since i love the

2650
01:33:10,390 --> 01:33:08,080
subject well i mean so i was kind of

2651
01:33:13,750 --> 01:33:10,400
maybe a little bit like everybody else

2652
01:33:15,590 --> 01:33:13,760
when i first saw the wilson davis notes

2653
01:33:17,030 --> 01:33:15,600
and i read

2654
01:33:19,910 --> 01:33:17,040
it's pretty obvious

2655
01:33:20,950 --> 01:33:19,920
who wrote them

2656
01:33:22,550 --> 01:33:20,960
or who's

2657
01:33:24,629 --> 01:33:22,560
purported to have written him by just by

2658
01:33:26,310 --> 01:33:24,639
reading through the document right right

2659
01:33:31,669 --> 01:33:26,320
the the the transcripts of the

2660
01:33:35,110 --> 01:33:32,709
so i think we've talked about this

2661
01:33:37,430 --> 01:33:35,120
before

2662
01:33:38,950 --> 01:33:37,440
my position is

2663
01:33:41,590 --> 01:33:38,960
um

2664
01:33:43,510 --> 01:33:41,600
i put a pretty high

2665
01:33:45,910 --> 01:33:43,520
quality rating

2666
01:33:51,030 --> 01:33:45,920
on that information

2667
01:33:55,270 --> 01:33:51,040
because of the person who apparently

2668
01:34:00,950 --> 01:33:58,709
my position on that comes from a number

2669
01:34:03,350 --> 01:34:00,960
of things

2670
01:34:04,790 --> 01:34:03,360
i don't know eric davis personally but i

2671
01:34:07,830 --> 01:34:04,800
have worked for

2672
01:34:09,669 --> 01:34:07,840
years with aerospace corporation

2673
01:34:10,629 --> 01:34:09,679
employees

2674
01:34:13,189 --> 01:34:10,639
in

2675
01:34:15,110 --> 01:34:13,199
a very highly technical environment

2676
01:34:16,550 --> 01:34:15,120
and i understand

2677
01:34:18,870 --> 01:34:16,560
how you

2678
01:34:20,870 --> 01:34:18,880
communicate in that environment

2679
01:34:21,910 --> 01:34:20,880
what the requirements are for systems

2680
01:34:23,750 --> 01:34:21,920
that are being developed in that

2681
01:34:24,870 --> 01:34:23,760
environment and and what they go to

2682
01:34:26,229 --> 01:34:24,880
support

2683
01:34:27,830 --> 01:34:26,239
how people

2684
01:34:29,510 --> 01:34:27,840
present information

2685
01:34:33,590 --> 01:34:29,520
how they

2686
01:34:36,470 --> 01:34:33,600
write it

2687
01:34:38,950 --> 01:34:36,480
when when you hear a person

2688
01:34:41,590 --> 01:34:38,960
in a job role such as a physicist or a

2689
01:34:44,550 --> 01:34:41,600
systems engineer

2690
01:34:46,390 --> 01:34:44,560
talking about the job talking about some

2691
01:34:48,870 --> 01:34:46,400
system whatever even when they're

2692
01:34:50,790 --> 01:34:48,880
talking about mowing their yard

2693
01:34:52,870 --> 01:34:50,800
it's hard to get the systems engineer

2694
01:34:54,149 --> 01:34:52,880
out of the systems engineer

2695
01:34:56,550 --> 01:34:54,159
and they tend to apply to almost

2696
01:34:58,390 --> 01:34:56,560
everything they do

2697
01:35:00,629 --> 01:34:58,400
same for these physicists these people

2698
01:35:02,950 --> 01:35:00,639
that are that are very highly educated

2699
01:35:06,470 --> 01:35:02,960
very detail-oriented people

2700
01:35:08,550 --> 01:35:06,480
and so when i consider all of that

2701
01:35:10,310 --> 01:35:08,560
and i consider who supposedly wrote that

2702
01:35:11,669 --> 01:35:10,320
document and then i see that person

2703
01:35:13,430 --> 01:35:11,679
interviewed

2704
01:35:16,550 --> 01:35:13,440
by a number of different people

2705
01:35:18,550 --> 01:35:16,560
and i listen to him talk

2706
01:35:20,870 --> 01:35:18,560
and i see what he supposedly is written

2707
01:35:22,709 --> 01:35:20,880
or typed up or whatever the case is

2708
01:35:24,870 --> 01:35:22,719
i don't have any trouble at all making

2709
01:35:26,709 --> 01:35:24,880
that that intellectual leap to the end

2710
01:35:28,310 --> 01:35:26,719
that that's that's real

2711
01:35:30,790 --> 01:35:28,320
um

2712
01:35:33,510 --> 01:35:30,800
because it looks like a duck

2713
01:35:35,270 --> 01:35:33,520
it walks like one

2714
01:35:37,990 --> 01:35:35,280
talks like one

2715
01:35:40,790 --> 01:35:38,000
you know to me

2716
01:35:42,550 --> 01:35:40,800
it's it's pretty assuredly

2717
01:35:44,629 --> 01:35:42,560
100 authentic

2718
01:35:46,229 --> 01:35:44,639
now

2719
01:35:48,629 --> 01:35:46,239
given the gravity of the situation to

2720
01:35:49,590 --> 01:35:48,639
grab of the topic

2721
01:35:52,229 --> 01:35:49,600
um

2722
01:35:53,830 --> 01:35:52,239
if it's true right so i'm sitting here

2723
01:35:56,790 --> 01:35:53,840
basically admitting to the world that i

2724
01:36:00,709 --> 01:35:56,800
i i'm going to bet my house that

2725
01:36:02,310 --> 01:36:00,719
uh that that document is authentic

2726
01:36:03,750 --> 01:36:02,320
if that's the case

2727
01:36:05,990 --> 01:36:03,760
and knowing

2728
01:36:07,590 --> 01:36:06,000
um

2729
01:36:10,149 --> 01:36:07,600
what the repercussions are uh

2730
01:36:12,709 --> 01:36:10,159
repercussions are just for for uh

2731
01:36:13,910 --> 01:36:12,719
somebody like me if i

2732
01:36:15,590 --> 01:36:13,920
went out and

2733
01:36:18,070 --> 01:36:15,600
and compromised a program that i was

2734
01:36:19,910 --> 01:36:18,080
associated with

2735
01:36:21,430 --> 01:36:19,920
then that's got consequences and they're

2736
01:36:22,830 --> 01:36:21,440
pretty grim

2737
01:36:26,149 --> 01:36:22,840
right

2738
01:36:28,790 --> 01:36:26,159
so when when when uh

2739
01:36:30,709 --> 01:36:28,800
retired admiral thomas wilson denies

2740
01:36:33,270 --> 01:36:30,719
that that interview between him and eric

2741
01:36:35,830 --> 01:36:33,280
davis ever happened

2742
01:36:38,629 --> 01:36:35,840
what else is he going to do

2743
01:36:40,390 --> 01:36:38,639
is he going to say well yeah because if

2744
01:36:41,750 --> 01:36:40,400
he if only one part of it is true the

2745
01:36:43,910 --> 01:36:41,760
whole thing is true

2746
01:36:45,590 --> 01:36:43,920
if he had missed a meeting with him then

2747
01:36:47,109 --> 01:36:45,600
who why would davis have cooked up these

2748
01:36:50,550 --> 01:36:47,119
notes if that's not what they talked you

2749
01:36:53,590 --> 01:36:50,560
know i mean davis is not davis is a very

2750
01:36:56,629 --> 01:36:53,600
very serious uh researcher like

2751
01:36:58,950 --> 01:36:56,639
everybody else in the in in his company

2752
01:37:00,790 --> 01:36:58,960
which is a federally funded research and

2753
01:37:02,950 --> 01:37:00,800
development corporation and there aren't

2754
01:37:05,430 --> 01:37:02,960
very many of them in the united states

2755
01:37:07,910 --> 01:37:05,440
they're very highly esteemed very highly

2756
01:37:09,350 --> 01:37:07,920
sought after very highly trusted and

2757
01:37:13,109 --> 01:37:09,360
they are involved in some of the most

2758
01:37:14,790 --> 01:37:13,119
sensitive national security projects

2759
01:37:17,990 --> 01:37:14,800
that we have

2760
01:37:21,590 --> 01:37:19,990
you know

2761
01:37:22,470 --> 01:37:21,600
they have no other they have no other

2762
01:37:24,629 --> 01:37:22,480
option

2763
01:37:26,470 --> 01:37:24,639
to protect their livelihood

2764
01:37:28,550 --> 01:37:26,480
their clearances

2765
01:37:30,709 --> 01:37:28,560
their way of life

2766
01:37:32,870 --> 01:37:30,719
than to deny

2767
01:37:35,189 --> 01:37:32,880
to their grave that that until they're

2768
01:37:36,790 --> 01:37:35,199
given authorization to talk about it

2769
01:37:38,870 --> 01:37:36,800
that's what we're going to get

2770
01:37:40,629 --> 01:37:38,880
and there won't be open hearings i don't

2771
01:37:42,550 --> 01:37:40,639
think

2772
01:37:44,149 --> 01:37:42,560
um you're talking about

2773
01:37:46,310 --> 01:37:44,159
open hearings

2774
01:37:48,390 --> 01:37:46,320
overall not just on crash retrieval just

2775
01:37:49,830 --> 01:37:48,400
open hearings because a lot of people

2776
01:37:52,870 --> 01:37:49,840
there are people predicting open

2777
01:37:55,030 --> 01:37:52,880
hearings are imminent and i'm skeptical

2778
01:37:57,669 --> 01:37:55,040
of course i want it but

2779
01:37:59,109 --> 01:37:57,679
i don't see it i mean i hope one day you

2780
01:38:01,270 --> 01:37:59,119
come back and we're like oh my god

2781
01:38:02,950 --> 01:38:01,280
michael we were so wrong there are open

2782
01:38:05,189 --> 01:38:02,960
hearings can you believe this because

2783
01:38:07,750 --> 01:38:05,199
i've been wrong about other things but

2784
01:38:10,550 --> 01:38:07,760
let me let me back up a little bit

2785
01:38:11,669 --> 01:38:10,560
i will be surprised if there are open

2786
01:38:13,750 --> 01:38:11,679
hearings

2787
01:38:15,270 --> 01:38:13,760
where you've got

2788
01:38:17,189 --> 01:38:15,280
the the likes of those that we're

2789
01:38:20,229 --> 01:38:17,199
talking about now

2790
01:38:22,070 --> 01:38:20,239
testifying and we can see them like

2791
01:38:23,109 --> 01:38:22,080
these uh

2792
01:38:25,510 --> 01:38:23,119
things that went on during the

2793
01:38:26,629 --> 01:38:25,520
impeachment or whatever else right it

2794
01:38:28,629 --> 01:38:26,639
won't be

2795
01:38:31,270 --> 01:38:28,639
they may have hearings

2796
01:38:34,390 --> 01:38:31,280
there may be public hearings but the

2797
01:38:36,229 --> 01:38:34,400
sensitive information is going to remain

2798
01:38:37,430 --> 01:38:36,239
sensitive so

2799
01:38:39,430 --> 01:38:37,440
um

2800
01:38:40,310 --> 01:38:39,440
i just i'll be really surprised if the

2801
01:38:41,750 --> 01:38:40,320
really

2802
01:38:43,910 --> 01:38:41,760
juicy stuff

2803
01:38:45,109 --> 01:38:43,920
is done in an open public forum so i

2804
01:38:47,189 --> 01:38:45,119
don't mean to dash everyone's hopes

2805
01:38:48,950 --> 01:38:47,199
because i hope i hope it happens too

2806
01:38:50,470 --> 01:38:48,960
i just don't because you don't see them

2807
01:38:54,070 --> 01:38:50,480
out there talking about

2808
01:38:57,430 --> 01:38:54,080
the space-based infrared programs or the

2809
01:38:59,990 --> 01:38:57,440
the new attack submarine program

2810
01:39:01,510 --> 01:39:00,000
or the the b-21

2811
01:39:03,270 --> 01:39:01,520
stealth bomber program they're not

2812
01:39:06,310 --> 01:39:03,280
having open hearings on that stuff that

2813
01:39:08,070 --> 01:39:06,320
stuff's all highly classified right so

2814
01:39:09,750 --> 01:39:08,080
there's there's a limit on what they can

2815
01:39:10,830 --> 01:39:09,760
have open hearings on

2816
01:39:12,470 --> 01:39:10,840
if

2817
01:39:15,030 --> 01:39:12,480
now

2818
01:39:16,149 --> 01:39:15,040
this is sort of tied to

2819
01:39:19,430 --> 01:39:16,159
the reason why i brought that up is

2820
01:39:20,790 --> 01:39:19,440
because you know apparently davis

2821
01:39:23,669 --> 01:39:20,800
briefed

2822
01:39:25,510 --> 01:39:23,679
sitting legislators on the hill

2823
01:39:28,070 --> 01:39:25,520
at some point the last couple of years

2824
01:39:29,669 --> 01:39:28,080
on the state of the programs that's what

2825
01:39:31,430 --> 01:39:29,679
i've heard

2826
01:39:32,709 --> 01:39:31,440
i've seen that written right i mean

2827
01:39:34,149 --> 01:39:32,719
that's been yeah i was in the new york

2828
01:39:36,790 --> 01:39:34,159
times and

2829
01:39:38,629 --> 01:39:36,800
i have confirmed that

2830
01:39:40,390 --> 01:39:38,639
he told

2831
01:39:42,550 --> 01:39:40,400
marco rubio and the senate select

2832
01:39:45,430 --> 01:39:42,560
intelligence committee that the o i and

2833
01:39:48,070 --> 01:39:45,440
the uap task force believes that

2834
01:39:49,910 --> 01:39:48,080
the true unknowns are off-world vehicles

2835
01:39:51,750 --> 01:39:49,920
whatever that means you know not made by

2836
01:39:54,229 --> 01:39:51,760
us so yeah

2837
01:39:55,590 --> 01:39:54,239
that's what got that's what got rubio

2838
01:39:57,910 --> 01:39:55,600
going

2839
01:39:59,750 --> 01:39:57,920
and whether or not

2840
01:40:02,390 --> 01:39:59,760
we get to the next level like you said

2841
01:40:05,109 --> 01:40:02,400
i'm hopeful too but it's like

2842
01:40:06,550 --> 01:40:05,119
i can't see i cannot see i mean

2843
01:40:09,669 --> 01:40:06,560
it would be a

2844
01:40:11,270 --> 01:40:09,679
a celebration dave i see dr eric davis

2845
01:40:13,350 --> 01:40:11,280
in front of her microphone

2846
01:40:15,270 --> 01:40:13,360
and marco rubio saying okay tell us

2847
01:40:17,750 --> 01:40:15,280
about the meeting in 2002 of october

2848
01:40:19,510 --> 01:40:17,760
16th and you met with thomas wilson what

2849
01:40:22,470 --> 01:40:19,520
kind of car was it

2850
01:40:23,669 --> 01:40:22,480
and did you record it did you take notes

2851
01:40:25,189 --> 01:40:23,679
yeah

2852
01:40:26,149 --> 01:40:25,199
i hope so

2853
01:40:27,590 --> 01:40:26,159
but

2854
01:40:29,990 --> 01:40:27,600
probably

2855
01:40:34,830 --> 01:40:30,000
everything in that transcript

2856
01:40:38,149 --> 01:40:34,840
is is

2857
01:40:40,950 --> 01:40:38,159
absolutely like it is for somebody of

2858
01:40:43,990 --> 01:40:40,960
wilson's job role at the time

2859
01:40:45,910 --> 01:40:44,000
and and for the time period

2860
01:40:48,790 --> 01:40:45,920
in that job

2861
01:40:49,590 --> 01:40:48,800
he said that it was he was retiring

2862
01:40:52,550 --> 01:40:49,600
right

2863
01:40:55,350 --> 01:40:52,560
and he was on a farewell tour

2864
01:40:57,669 --> 01:40:55,360
thanking people out at the nellis range

2865
01:40:59,990 --> 01:40:57,679
eg and so forth right that's sort of the

2866
01:41:01,430 --> 01:41:00,000
context that he was out there yeah

2867
01:41:03,270 --> 01:41:01,440
he had already retired he had already

2868
01:41:05,109 --> 01:41:03,280
retired and he was on his farewell tour

2869
01:41:06,709 --> 01:41:05,119
and he claims he hadn't been now he

2870
01:41:08,550 --> 01:41:06,719
claims he hasn't met to vegas since the

2871
01:41:10,149 --> 01:41:08,560
70s but yes

2872
01:41:13,109 --> 01:41:10,159
if i was him i would claim that too

2873
01:41:14,790 --> 01:41:13,119
right right he's got a lot to lose but

2874
01:41:16,709 --> 01:41:14,800
we're talking about

2875
01:41:19,590 --> 01:41:16,719
an admiral

2876
01:41:21,750 --> 01:41:19,600
we're not talking about uh

2877
01:41:24,070 --> 01:41:21,760
petty officer mike vi

2878
01:41:25,350 --> 01:41:24,080
or a senior chief petty officer kevin

2879
01:41:27,109 --> 01:41:25,360
day

2880
01:41:28,950 --> 01:41:27,119
and i just bring up kevin as another

2881
01:41:30,709 --> 01:41:28,960
enlisted although he was you know he was

2882
01:41:32,149 --> 01:41:30,719
in much longer than i was i was only ian

2883
01:41:34,310 --> 01:41:32,159
for eight and a half years and then i

2884
01:41:35,669 --> 01:41:34,320
got out and became a contractor

2885
01:41:37,990 --> 01:41:35,679
um

2886
01:41:39,910 --> 01:41:38,000
but even kevin would say would you know

2887
01:41:41,030 --> 01:41:39,920
i'm sure if he was in the chat with us

2888
01:41:42,709 --> 01:41:41,040
here

2889
01:41:44,070 --> 01:41:42,719
would acknowledge that an admiral the

2890
01:41:45,669 --> 01:41:44,080
point is

2891
01:41:47,990 --> 01:41:45,679
the admiral would not have driven his

2892
01:41:49,590 --> 01:41:48,000
rental car out there

2893
01:41:51,350 --> 01:41:49,600
for a meeting

2894
01:41:54,550 --> 01:41:51,360
he would have been driven

2895
01:41:56,709 --> 01:41:54,560
with all of the rank and privilege and

2896
01:41:59,430 --> 01:41:56,719
pomp and circumstance that an admiral

2897
01:42:02,950 --> 01:41:59,440
deserves at that rank which was why he

2898
01:42:05,030 --> 01:42:02,960
was in that car and why he had a driver

2899
01:42:06,229 --> 01:42:05,040
that was and why these other navy people

2900
01:42:07,669 --> 01:42:06,239
were with him that went on in the

2901
01:42:10,310 --> 01:42:07,679
building

2902
01:42:13,109 --> 01:42:10,320
that's what commanders of organizations

2903
01:42:17,189 --> 01:42:13,119
like dia and and

2904
01:42:19,189 --> 01:42:17,199
nga and the nro and and any combatant

2905
01:42:21,430 --> 01:42:19,199
command like us special operations

2906
01:42:23,430 --> 01:42:21,440
command or northern command

2907
01:42:25,430 --> 01:42:23,440
or pacific command

2908
01:42:26,390 --> 01:42:25,440
when they travel

2909
01:42:31,669 --> 01:42:26,400
they

2910
01:42:32,950 --> 01:42:31,679
uh at the end of their tenure most of

2911
01:42:34,790 --> 01:42:32,960
them do

2912
01:42:37,590 --> 01:42:34,800
and during their tenure or at the end of

2913
01:42:39,510 --> 01:42:37,600
it they they they hand out uh command

2914
01:42:41,590 --> 01:42:39,520
coins it's it's a thing you may have

2915
01:42:43,350 --> 01:42:41,600
seen one it's about the size of a silver

2916
01:42:45,430 --> 01:42:43,360
dollar and every command or every

2917
01:42:47,910 --> 01:42:45,440
organization has one

2918
01:42:49,350 --> 01:42:47,920
um i've got an nro coin right here

2919
01:42:53,270 --> 01:42:49,360
somewhere but uh

2920
01:42:55,830 --> 01:42:53,280
anyway you hand those out to people

2921
01:42:57,430 --> 01:42:55,840
like the eg and g staff or people that

2922
01:43:01,750 --> 01:42:57,440
ran the test range

2923
01:43:05,030 --> 01:43:01,760
that everything about that transcript

2924
01:43:07,109 --> 01:43:05,040
screams legitimacy is where i'm going

2925
01:43:08,310 --> 01:43:07,119
even down to the little details of

2926
01:43:10,870 --> 01:43:08,320
knowing how

2927
01:43:13,270 --> 01:43:10,880
these organizational leaders do how they

2928
01:43:15,109 --> 01:43:13,280
treat their people how they're how

2929
01:43:17,910 --> 01:43:15,119
they're transported around

2930
01:43:19,750 --> 01:43:17,920
you know they don't hail a cab

2931
01:43:21,910 --> 01:43:19,760
they're they're big shots right i mean

2932
01:43:23,430 --> 01:43:21,920
they get they get special treatment and

2933
01:43:25,830 --> 01:43:23,440
they deserve it because they're some of

2934
01:43:28,550 --> 01:43:25,840
the highest ranking people in our in our

2935
01:43:31,590 --> 01:43:28,560
military and government so

2936
01:43:33,669 --> 01:43:31,600
um i put i put very high

2937
01:43:36,149 --> 01:43:33,679
quality rating on the information

2938
01:43:37,910 --> 01:43:36,159
uh and is the reason why i i talk of it

2939
01:43:40,790 --> 01:43:37,920
like that quality rating is because i

2940
01:43:42,149 --> 01:43:40,800
think we talked about this before

2941
01:43:43,590 --> 01:43:42,159
uh that

2942
01:43:44,950 --> 01:43:43,600
there's a way

2943
01:43:46,310 --> 01:43:44,960
there's there are a lot of people asking

2944
01:43:50,550 --> 01:43:46,320
a lot of questions right you know in the

2945
01:43:54,390 --> 01:43:52,229
there's another document by the way

2946
01:43:55,109 --> 01:43:54,400
bruce mcafee and jack vale are the other

2947
01:43:57,030 --> 01:43:55,119
two

2948
01:43:58,629 --> 01:43:57,040
out of that's the four that i always

2949
01:44:00,790 --> 01:43:58,639
recommend

2950
01:44:01,669 --> 01:44:00,800
um people start reading right off the

2951
01:44:02,790 --> 01:44:01,679
bat

2952
01:44:04,870 --> 01:44:02,800
is um

2953
01:44:07,830 --> 01:44:04,880
so let's just recap on that

2954
01:44:09,030 --> 01:44:07,840
and yes alpha clan yes wilson did say he

2955
01:44:10,790 --> 01:44:09,040
would deny

2956
01:44:11,990 --> 01:44:10,800
if anything ever came to light just to

2957
01:44:14,550 --> 01:44:12,000
clarify

2958
01:44:15,910 --> 01:44:14,560
uh on that question and yeah and and i

2959
01:44:18,310 --> 01:44:15,920
would too if i was him because

2960
01:44:20,070 --> 01:44:18,320
apparently it was really serious when he

2961
01:44:22,149 --> 01:44:20,080
came back to dc and raised a lot of hell

2962
01:44:24,070 --> 01:44:22,159
and uh tried to get to the bottom of the

2963
01:44:26,070 --> 01:44:24,080
special access program

2964
01:44:29,030 --> 01:44:26,080
um yeah and i think it was i think it

2965
01:44:31,430 --> 01:44:29,040
was 2005 where bob mcguire says he saw a

2966
01:44:33,350 --> 01:44:31,440
letter from wilson he was still upset

2967
01:44:35,350 --> 01:44:33,360
about being rejected here's a question

2968
01:44:37,189 --> 01:44:35,360
people always ask

2969
01:44:38,950 --> 01:44:37,199
shouldn't he have known that he would

2970
01:44:43,750 --> 01:44:38,960
not have the need to know for that

2971
01:44:45,590 --> 01:44:43,760
program even in even as j2 and

2972
01:44:47,510 --> 01:44:45,600
why did they why did they give him that

2973
01:44:49,270 --> 01:44:47,520
information if it's legitimate if that's

2974
01:44:51,430 --> 01:44:49,280
an accurate document why would they even

2975
01:44:53,109 --> 01:44:51,440
give up any information my opinion is

2976
01:44:54,629 --> 01:44:53,119
they just wanted to make him go away so

2977
01:44:56,709 --> 01:44:54,639
they gave him some information but they

2978
01:44:58,229 --> 01:44:56,719
would not give him the full tour

2979
01:45:01,510 --> 01:44:58,239
that's probably right

2980
01:45:10,390 --> 01:45:02,470
and

2981
01:45:13,910 --> 01:45:10,400
davis you

2982
01:45:15,189 --> 01:45:13,920
i i forget now you were asking um

2983
01:45:16,950 --> 01:45:15,199
about why

2984
01:45:18,790 --> 01:45:16,960
wouldn't he have known wouldn't he have

2985
01:45:20,470 --> 01:45:18,800
or not that he did not have need to know

2986
01:45:21,830 --> 01:45:20,480
for that program no matter who he is if

2987
01:45:23,109 --> 01:45:21,840
he you know even the president you don't

2988
01:45:24,629 --> 01:45:23,119
need to know you're not getting in so

2989
01:45:26,950 --> 01:45:24,639
why would he even bother

2990
01:45:29,189 --> 01:45:26,960
okay so this side yeah this kind of

2991
01:45:32,310 --> 01:45:29,199
touches on what we talked about before

2992
01:45:33,189 --> 01:45:32,320
uh clearances and having access

2993
01:45:35,109 --> 01:45:33,199
and

2994
01:45:37,990 --> 01:45:35,119
who's got higher clairs than the next

2995
01:45:40,550 --> 01:45:38,000
guy and you know

2996
01:45:43,030 --> 01:45:40,560
lose somebody said

2997
01:45:45,669 --> 01:45:43,040
lou has this high level clearance and he

2998
01:45:47,830 --> 01:45:45,679
can see all these pro

2999
01:45:51,830 --> 01:45:47,840
everybody

3000
01:45:53,990 --> 01:45:51,840
um i have to be careful how i say this

3001
01:45:55,350 --> 01:45:54,000
you are if you have a high level

3002
01:45:57,590 --> 01:45:55,360
security clearance

3003
01:45:59,990 --> 01:45:57,600
you have been deemed at least for that

3004
01:46:01,590 --> 01:46:00,000
period of time until you

3005
01:46:04,149 --> 01:46:01,600
screw up

3006
01:46:06,070 --> 01:46:04,159
or you come under your next

3007
01:46:08,310 --> 01:46:06,080
reinvestigation which is done about

3008
01:46:10,629 --> 01:46:08,320
every five to six seven years you have

3009
01:46:12,550 --> 01:46:10,639
to redo your investigation and it's not

3010
01:46:14,629 --> 01:46:12,560
a full-blown one like the beginning but

3011
01:46:16,950 --> 01:46:14,639
they you have to refresh to make sure

3012
01:46:19,030 --> 01:46:16,960
you haven't moved or gone bankrupt or

3013
01:46:21,030 --> 01:46:19,040
become alcoholic or

3014
01:46:22,950 --> 01:46:21,040
gotten hooked on drugs and or you know

3015
01:46:27,030 --> 01:46:22,960
whatever it's it's

3016
01:46:35,109 --> 01:46:31,109
you're eligible for these programs

3017
01:46:37,189 --> 01:46:35,119
you have a clearance of a certain level

3018
01:46:38,550 --> 01:46:37,199
and you're eligible to go to work for

3019
01:46:41,109 --> 01:46:38,560
those programs

3020
01:46:44,149 --> 01:46:41,119
if they need you not because there's no

3021
01:46:46,629 --> 01:46:44,159
place you go on some computer system

3022
01:46:49,590 --> 01:46:46,639
and run down a list at work and you go

3023
01:46:51,030 --> 01:46:49,600
man i really this job sucks

3024
01:46:52,070 --> 01:46:51,040
i'd love to go over here and work this

3025
01:46:52,870 --> 01:46:52,080
program

3026
01:46:54,629 --> 01:46:52,880
but

3027
01:46:57,990 --> 01:46:54,639
you don't do that by looking at some

3028
01:46:59,910 --> 01:46:58,000
list of classified programs

3029
01:47:01,590 --> 01:46:59,920
because how uh

3030
01:47:02,790 --> 01:47:01,600
that's just not how it's

3031
01:47:04,870 --> 01:47:02,800
managed

3032
01:47:07,750 --> 01:47:04,880
that number one why would you want all

3033
01:47:10,149 --> 01:47:07,760
of your sensitive programs on a list

3034
01:47:11,750 --> 01:47:10,159
if that list gets compromised then now

3035
01:47:12,870 --> 01:47:11,760
your adversary has a list of all your

3036
01:47:14,550 --> 01:47:12,880
programs

3037
01:47:16,390 --> 01:47:14,560
that's not the way it works

3038
01:47:17,910 --> 01:47:16,400
it just simply means when you have a

3039
01:47:19,750 --> 01:47:17,920
high level clearance

3040
01:47:22,470 --> 01:47:19,760
that you are eligible

3041
01:47:24,470 --> 01:47:22,480
for the information

3042
01:47:25,669 --> 01:47:24,480
at whatever clearance level you're

3043
01:47:28,950 --> 01:47:25,679
cleared to

3044
01:47:30,629 --> 01:47:28,960
and so there if you have a need to know

3045
01:47:33,510 --> 01:47:30,639
on that program

3046
01:47:35,510 --> 01:47:33,520
you can if there's deemed to be a need

3047
01:47:37,510 --> 01:47:35,520
to brief you in

3048
01:47:39,350 --> 01:47:37,520
you can be briefed into it it doesn't

3049
01:47:41,350 --> 01:47:39,360
mean just because you have a high level

3050
01:47:43,669 --> 01:47:41,360
clearance doesn't mean you know about

3051
01:47:44,790 --> 01:47:43,679
all the programs running in the us

3052
01:47:47,669 --> 01:47:44,800
government and the intelligence

3053
01:47:48,950 --> 01:47:47,679
community absolutely not

3054
01:47:51,189 --> 01:47:48,960
that's why

3055
01:47:53,189 --> 01:47:51,199
you hear lou talk about

3056
01:47:55,669 --> 01:47:53,199
he's mentioned it before you know having

3057
01:47:57,030 --> 01:47:55,679
ts sci sensitive compartmented

3058
01:47:59,189 --> 01:47:57,040
information

3059
01:48:01,669 --> 01:47:59,199
you're eligible

3060
01:48:03,510 --> 01:48:01,679
not only do you have a ts

3061
01:48:06,629 --> 01:48:03,520
but if you have ts

3062
01:48:08,950 --> 01:48:06,639
that's polygraph level

3063
01:48:11,430 --> 01:48:08,960
background investigation stuff

3064
01:48:13,910 --> 01:48:11,440
you're going to have to pass a polygraph

3065
01:48:16,390 --> 01:48:13,920
initially and then periodically every

3066
01:48:18,950 --> 01:48:16,400
few years or in some cases in certain

3067
01:48:20,470 --> 01:48:18,960
certain job roles maybe you have to

3068
01:48:21,750 --> 01:48:20,480
travel overseas

3069
01:48:24,310 --> 01:48:21,760
quite frequently

3070
01:48:25,750 --> 01:48:24,320
you very well could be polygraphed

3071
01:48:28,310 --> 01:48:25,760
upon return

3072
01:48:29,430 --> 01:48:28,320
of every trip

3073
01:48:31,350 --> 01:48:29,440
just

3074
01:48:33,430 --> 01:48:31,360
you know it's a saturday check right to

3075
01:48:35,350 --> 01:48:33,440
make sure that you haven't turned

3076
01:48:37,669 --> 01:48:35,360
either ideologically

3077
01:48:39,109 --> 01:48:37,679
if it's not ideologically maybe you got

3078
01:48:40,870 --> 01:48:39,119
into debt

3079
01:48:43,510 --> 01:48:40,880
which is the number one

3080
01:48:47,350 --> 01:48:43,520
vulnerability

3081
01:48:48,709 --> 01:48:47,360
to being bribed or coerced into selling

3082
01:48:50,470 --> 01:48:48,719
state secrets

3083
01:48:53,830 --> 01:48:50,480
but

3084
01:48:57,030 --> 01:48:53,840
if you have a tssci

3085
01:48:59,510 --> 01:48:57,040
then that's another level above

3086
01:49:01,590 --> 01:48:59,520
it's not a level above it's another

3087
01:49:03,669 --> 01:49:01,600
add-on to your clearance that says that

3088
01:49:05,590 --> 01:49:03,679
you're you have been thoroughly vetted

3089
01:49:08,310 --> 01:49:05,600
you have been polygraphed and you are

3090
01:49:10,870 --> 01:49:08,320
eligible for compartmented programs

3091
01:49:15,270 --> 01:49:10,880
and compartmented programs are much more

3092
01:49:22,390 --> 01:49:16,470
the

3093
01:49:24,149 --> 01:49:22,400
right

3094
01:49:26,149 --> 01:49:24,159
there's a classified fact and there's a

3095
01:49:28,870 --> 01:49:26,159
classified program

3096
01:49:31,589 --> 01:49:28,880
that program could be so sensitive

3097
01:49:33,270 --> 01:49:31,599
that it's got its own compartment

3098
01:49:36,149 --> 01:49:33,280
which means

3099
01:49:38,790 --> 01:49:36,159
it comes with extra funding to provide

3100
01:49:41,750 --> 01:49:38,800
security around it to help hide it and

3101
01:49:43,910 --> 01:49:41,760
keep it hidden not from the government

3102
01:49:44,870 --> 01:49:43,920
and off the books but to help keep it

3103
01:49:47,270 --> 01:49:44,880
hidden

3104
01:49:49,430 --> 01:49:47,280
from our adversaries right but now

3105
01:49:53,669 --> 01:49:49,440
you're talking about something

3106
01:50:00,229 --> 01:49:57,750
an unauthorized special access program

3107
01:50:03,510 --> 01:50:00,239
that wilson was told about through

3108
01:50:04,470 --> 01:50:03,520
apparently what stephen greer

3109
01:50:07,030 --> 01:50:04,480
and he

3110
01:50:09,589 --> 01:50:07,040
supposedly looked into it

3111
01:50:12,310 --> 01:50:09,599
according to the wilson davis notes

3112
01:50:14,470 --> 01:50:12,320
and he was he tried to get into a

3113
01:50:17,430 --> 01:50:14,480
program he thought should have

3114
01:50:18,790 --> 01:50:17,440
that he should have had the eligibility

3115
01:50:24,070 --> 01:50:18,800
to

3116
01:50:26,470 --> 01:50:24,080
now

3117
01:50:32,149 --> 01:50:26,480
if it's

3118
01:50:34,070 --> 01:50:32,159
sensitive enough

3119
01:50:35,990 --> 01:50:34,080
to where the people in the knowledge

3120
01:50:39,189 --> 01:50:36,000
circle the awareness circle of that

3121
01:50:41,350 --> 01:50:39,199
program is so tightly controlled

3122
01:50:43,669 --> 01:50:41,360
it is so conceivable

3123
01:50:45,910 --> 01:50:43,679
that even somebody of his

3124
01:50:48,229 --> 01:50:45,920
rank and authority

3125
01:50:49,990 --> 01:50:48,239
which was obviously the case

3126
01:50:51,189 --> 01:50:50,000
at the time anyway

3127
01:50:53,669 --> 01:50:51,199
wouldn't be

3128
01:50:55,270 --> 01:50:53,679
read in just because he's deputy

3129
01:50:57,430 --> 01:50:55,280
director of dia

3130
01:50:58,390 --> 01:50:57,440
and associated with the j-2 the joint

3131
01:50:59,589 --> 01:50:58,400
chiefs

3132
01:51:02,149 --> 01:50:59,599
that doesn't

3133
01:51:04,310 --> 01:51:02,159
instantly give him keys

3134
01:51:06,709 --> 01:51:04,320
to the kingdom

3135
01:51:08,310 --> 01:51:06,719
like i'm gonna i'm gonna go through

3136
01:51:09,510 --> 01:51:08,320
really quick some questions that are

3137
01:51:11,910 --> 01:51:09,520
here

3138
01:51:15,350 --> 01:51:11,920
you could don't take your time answering

3139
01:51:17,669 --> 01:51:15,360
john greenwald researcher has said

3140
01:51:19,750 --> 01:51:17,679
as a theory some of these you know these

3141
01:51:21,270 --> 01:51:19,760
wilson davis notes are a movie script

3142
01:51:23,589 --> 01:51:21,280
scale of one to a hundred what are the

3143
01:51:25,270 --> 01:51:23,599
chances

3144
01:51:27,270 --> 01:51:25,280
uh for everything i i think it's a scale

3145
01:51:28,790 --> 01:51:27,280
of 100 the chance of that being a movie

3146
01:51:30,390 --> 01:51:28,800
script is

3147
01:51:31,430 --> 01:51:30,400
point zero

3148
01:51:33,270 --> 01:51:31,440
zero

3149
01:51:37,430 --> 01:51:33,280
one

3150
01:51:40,070 --> 01:51:37,440
why did mike say ionization is an

3151
01:51:42,390 --> 01:51:40,080
artifact of propulsion why and how does

3152
01:51:45,189 --> 01:51:42,400
he know

3153
01:51:51,510 --> 01:51:48,390
because of a collection of certain facts

3154
01:51:54,790 --> 01:51:51,520
that i have come across since

3155
01:51:55,830 --> 01:51:54,800
one is as simple as reading um

3156
01:51:57,589 --> 01:51:55,840
and i'm looking up because i have

3157
01:51:59,030 --> 01:51:57,599
another display here and i've got this

3158
01:52:01,750 --> 01:51:59,040
list of books

3159
01:52:04,950 --> 01:52:01,760
if you read uncon unconventional flying

3160
01:52:07,109 --> 01:52:04,960
objects by paul hill who was the nasa

3161
01:52:09,430 --> 01:52:07,119
aerodynamicist

3162
01:52:11,910 --> 01:52:09,440
he he talks about

3163
01:52:14,310 --> 01:52:11,920
why these things are

3164
01:52:16,229 --> 01:52:14,320
the color they are

3165
01:52:19,589 --> 01:52:16,239
why they're bright in the first place so

3166
01:52:23,750 --> 01:52:19,599
he goes into the luminosity of them

3167
01:52:26,310 --> 01:52:23,760
and he his research or their research

3168
01:52:28,830 --> 01:52:26,320
apparently verified the fact that the

3169
01:52:32,390 --> 01:52:28,840
different luminosity of these observed

3170
01:52:35,750 --> 01:52:32,400
vehicles was it was a byproduct of the

3171
01:52:37,030 --> 01:52:35,760
power output of whatever the propulsion

3172
01:52:39,910 --> 01:52:37,040
system was

3173
01:52:42,229 --> 01:52:39,920
which like i said in his book

3174
01:52:45,030 --> 01:52:42,239
at the end of it the only things that he

3175
01:52:47,830 --> 01:52:45,040
did not

3176
01:52:49,189 --> 01:52:47,840
scientifically show the work for and

3177
01:52:51,430 --> 01:52:49,199
figure out

3178
01:52:53,589 --> 01:52:51,440
was the who it is

3179
01:52:56,390 --> 01:52:53,599
and what kind of power system there but

3180
01:52:58,790 --> 01:52:56,400
but they understood very very well

3181
01:53:00,950 --> 01:52:58,800
what the effects were from that power

3182
01:53:04,629 --> 01:53:00,960
system both from all of the landing

3183
01:53:07,030 --> 01:53:04,639
trace cases and all of the soil samples

3184
01:53:08,950 --> 01:53:07,040
and all of the compression tests in the

3185
01:53:11,430 --> 01:53:08,960
ground where these things had been

3186
01:53:13,270 --> 01:53:11,440
eyewitnessed as having landed

3187
01:53:15,350 --> 01:53:13,280
and they did soil compression tests and

3188
01:53:16,390 --> 01:53:15,360
found out like there's this one case in

3189
01:53:19,270 --> 01:53:16,400
france

3190
01:53:22,310 --> 01:53:19,280
that they this thing landed right on

3191
01:53:24,070 --> 01:53:22,320
some railroad tracks on some cross ties

3192
01:53:26,470 --> 01:53:24,080
and they looked at the compression of

3193
01:53:29,030 --> 01:53:26,480
the wood and the tie and it i believe it

3194
01:53:33,030 --> 01:53:29,040
was something like 15 tons

3195
01:53:35,189 --> 01:53:33,040
that's nearly 30 000 pounds

3196
01:53:36,629 --> 01:53:35,199
sitting sitting inert on the ground

3197
01:53:38,870 --> 01:53:36,639
powered down

3198
01:53:40,709 --> 01:53:38,880
and the observables during that was that

3199
01:53:42,870 --> 01:53:40,719
it was brightly lit

3200
01:53:46,870 --> 01:53:42,880
it slowed to a stop

3201
01:53:49,589 --> 01:53:46,880
it landed and it reduced in luminosity

3202
01:53:51,430 --> 01:53:49,599
um when it reduced is that the the trans

3203
01:53:53,430 --> 01:53:51,440
on provence case it was a famous i think

3204
01:53:57,030 --> 01:53:53,440
so right okay

3205
01:53:58,390 --> 01:53:57,040
and and so so this isn't just one case

3206
01:53:59,430 --> 01:53:58,400
he has

3207
01:54:01,270 --> 01:53:59,440
um

3208
01:54:03,030 --> 01:54:01,280
and i can't quote them i should i should

3209
01:54:06,390 --> 01:54:03,040
bring it bring that i got it i've got it

3210
01:54:09,350 --> 01:54:06,400
yeah i've got it on kendall reader but

3211
01:54:13,030 --> 01:54:09,360
it's it's across a range

3212
01:54:16,310 --> 01:54:13,040
of uh data collected from numerous

3213
01:54:18,470 --> 01:54:16,320
official air force scientific reporting

3214
01:54:20,870 --> 01:54:18,480
which also when you finish reading that

3215
01:54:24,229 --> 01:54:20,880
book you do find out that blue book was

3216
01:54:26,629 --> 01:54:24,239
a farce because this guy and his

3217
01:54:28,790 --> 01:54:26,639
organization was getting they were

3218
01:54:30,390 --> 01:54:28,800
getting all of the real investigative

3219
01:54:31,430 --> 01:54:30,400
reports now i really need to read this

3220
01:54:34,229 --> 01:54:31,440
book

3221
01:54:35,910 --> 01:54:34,239
everybody it should be

3222
01:54:38,629 --> 01:54:35,920
you know if it would be if there was a

3223
01:54:39,830 --> 01:54:38,639
degree at a university in ufology

3224
01:54:45,589 --> 01:54:39,840
this would be

3225
01:54:47,030 --> 01:54:45,599
would be ufology part of uh part of uh

3226
01:54:48,310 --> 01:54:47,040
freshman

3227
01:54:49,350 --> 01:54:48,320
curriculum

3228
01:54:51,830 --> 01:54:49,360
um

3229
01:54:54,390 --> 01:54:51,840
so to to answer that question

3230
01:54:55,830 --> 01:54:54,400
he not only figured out i say he he i

3231
01:54:58,070 --> 01:54:55,840
don't mean to sound like he was alone on

3232
01:55:00,870 --> 01:54:58,080
an island working by himself

3233
01:55:02,870 --> 01:55:00,880
they figured out according to this book

3234
01:55:03,669 --> 01:55:02,880
and the data that they show

3235
01:55:05,430 --> 01:55:03,679
that

3236
01:55:08,790 --> 01:55:05,440
the brightness

3237
01:55:11,030 --> 01:55:08,800
was not some sort of light

3238
01:55:13,830 --> 01:55:11,040
although they do have lights they have

3239
01:55:15,990 --> 01:55:13,840
been witnessed verifiable they have

3240
01:55:17,589 --> 01:55:16,000
apparently navigation lights

3241
01:55:19,990 --> 01:55:17,599
searchlights

3242
01:55:22,550 --> 01:55:20,000
they use laser technology that's been

3243
01:55:25,109 --> 01:55:23,430
and

3244
01:55:26,629 --> 01:55:25,119
the brightness

3245
01:55:29,189 --> 01:55:26,639
that is emitted

3246
01:55:32,390 --> 01:55:29,199
this aura around them

3247
01:55:33,270 --> 01:55:32,400
that the brightness that's given off is

3248
01:55:36,229 --> 01:55:33,280
is

3249
01:55:38,790 --> 01:55:36,239
apparently due to the ionization

3250
01:55:41,910 --> 01:55:38,800
of the air molecules and it can be a

3251
01:55:44,070 --> 01:55:41,920
different color based on the power level

3252
01:55:45,270 --> 01:55:44,080
of the energy system

3253
01:55:46,629 --> 01:55:45,280
and

3254
01:55:56,950 --> 01:55:46,639
the

3255
01:55:59,189 --> 01:55:56,960
oxygen and nitrogen

3256
01:56:00,790 --> 01:55:59,199
you know in the mix you're going to have

3257
01:56:02,629 --> 01:56:00,800
other particles of other other

3258
01:56:04,950 --> 01:56:02,639
components

3259
01:56:07,990 --> 01:56:04,960
that are going to taint

3260
01:56:09,430 --> 01:56:08,000
the the air molecules all of which

3261
01:56:10,870 --> 01:56:09,440
in proximity to that vehicle are going

3262
01:56:13,510 --> 01:56:10,880
to be ionized

3263
01:56:15,109 --> 01:56:13,520
and that glow from that electromagnetic

3264
01:56:17,589 --> 01:56:15,119
energy

3265
01:56:18,790 --> 01:56:17,599
here's how by the way lou actually said

3266
01:56:21,669 --> 01:56:18,800
this

3267
01:56:24,149 --> 01:56:21,679
in new york talking about the brightness

3268
01:56:26,310 --> 01:56:24,159
and and the ionization

3269
01:56:28,550 --> 01:56:26,320
he said it's and i think he said this on

3270
01:56:30,950 --> 01:56:28,560
another podcast too

3271
01:56:33,030 --> 01:56:30,960
it's the same concept in a way of

3272
01:56:34,709 --> 01:56:33,040
looking at a fluorescent bulb

3273
01:56:37,430 --> 01:56:34,719
when you look at a fluorescent bulb and

3274
01:56:39,189 --> 01:56:37,440
you have the switch turned off

3275
01:56:40,629 --> 01:56:39,199
you can see the bulb

3276
01:56:41,750 --> 01:56:40,639
you know it

3277
01:56:43,109 --> 01:56:41,760
different bulbs have different

3278
01:56:44,709 --> 01:56:43,119
luminosity

3279
01:56:46,390 --> 01:56:44,719
but what happens when you when you turn

3280
01:56:47,589 --> 01:56:46,400
the electricity on when the current runs

3281
01:56:49,350 --> 01:56:47,599
through there

3282
01:56:51,750 --> 01:56:49,360
the it heats up

3283
01:56:54,950 --> 01:56:51,760
the gas inside the tube

3284
01:56:56,550 --> 01:56:54,960
it ionizes it causes it to glow

3285
01:56:58,709 --> 01:56:56,560
and that's the same

3286
01:56:59,669 --> 01:56:58,719
uh that's how lou sort of was explaining

3287
01:57:01,990 --> 01:56:59,679
to me

3288
01:57:03,830 --> 01:57:02,000
these three bright circles

3289
01:57:06,149 --> 01:57:03,840
in the corner of the triangle that

3290
01:57:07,589 --> 01:57:06,159
whatever that energy system is

3291
01:57:09,350 --> 01:57:07,599
it's uh

3292
01:57:13,910 --> 01:57:09,360
it's causing the ionization of the

3293
01:57:16,709 --> 01:57:13,920
ambient air in proximity of the vehicle

3294
01:57:18,390 --> 01:57:16,719
let me go through um nicole asked and i

3295
01:57:20,310 --> 01:57:18,400
i'm pretty sure your answer is no she's

3296
01:57:22,149 --> 01:57:20,320
like what about citizen hearings just

3297
01:57:22,950 --> 01:57:22,159
what about the citizen hearings like we

3298
01:57:24,950 --> 01:57:22,960
had

3299
01:57:26,470 --> 01:57:24,960
um but just official and i would think

3300
01:57:28,790 --> 01:57:26,480
you still think no that's not going to

3301
01:57:32,950 --> 01:57:31,270
i think that's completely plausible and

3302
01:57:35,270 --> 01:57:32,960
really the the only

3303
01:57:37,350 --> 01:57:35,280
the only thing that that detracts from

3304
01:57:38,709 --> 01:57:37,360
the gravity of something like that and

3305
01:57:40,229 --> 01:57:38,719
they're not

3306
01:57:42,709 --> 01:57:40,239
necessarily the credibility because they

3307
01:57:43,750 --> 01:57:42,719
can get credible people but you really

3308
01:57:45,750 --> 01:57:43,760
want the

3309
01:57:47,430 --> 01:57:45,760
highest ranking

3310
01:57:50,149 --> 01:57:47,440
preferably currently

3311
01:57:54,629 --> 01:57:50,159
sitting legislators to be in those

3312
01:57:56,790 --> 01:57:54,639
hearings right and and i i'm not sure

3313
01:57:58,709 --> 01:57:56,800
that um

3314
01:58:00,950 --> 01:57:58,719
that it hasn't happened already it would

3315
01:58:02,629 --> 01:58:00,960
not surprise me a bit that people like

3316
01:58:04,790 --> 01:58:02,639
senator warner and senator rubio and

3317
01:58:06,950 --> 01:58:04,800
others the gang of eight the people on

3318
01:58:08,070 --> 01:58:06,960
the on the hipsy or the the house

3319
01:58:10,070 --> 01:58:08,080
permanent select committee on

3320
01:58:11,750 --> 01:58:10,080
intelligence the senate select committee

3321
01:58:13,669 --> 01:58:11,760
on intelligence the senate armed

3322
01:58:16,790 --> 01:58:13,679
services committee

3323
01:58:19,750 --> 01:58:16,800
those kinds of folks that may have had

3324
01:58:21,910 --> 01:58:19,760
may have right now a very high interest

3325
01:58:23,270 --> 01:58:21,920
in this topic it would not surprise me

3326
01:58:26,310 --> 01:58:23,280
one bit

3327
01:58:29,990 --> 01:58:26,320
if someone from these programs

3328
01:58:32,149 --> 01:58:30,000
hasn't already approached them and said

3329
01:58:33,910 --> 01:58:32,159
listen here's the real deal

3330
01:58:35,669 --> 01:58:33,920
to some extent i don't mean that they

3331
01:58:37,830 --> 01:58:35,679
played all their cards

3332
01:58:40,870 --> 01:58:37,840
but said you know this notion we we need

3333
01:58:42,229 --> 01:58:40,880
to get we need to get to quote uh

3334
01:58:44,070 --> 01:58:42,239
i used to really like this guy but it's

3335
01:58:45,990 --> 01:58:44,080
kind of funny how he transitioned from

3336
01:58:48,470 --> 01:58:46,000
being an admiral to uh being the

3337
01:58:50,629 --> 01:58:48,480
pentagon press spokesman but admiral

3338
01:58:51,669 --> 01:58:50,639
john kirby retired who's now the

3339
01:58:53,510 --> 01:58:51,679
pentagon

3340
01:58:56,470 --> 01:58:53,520
he likes to use the phrase

3341
01:58:58,229 --> 01:58:56,480
uh don't want to get out ahead of

3342
01:58:59,189 --> 01:58:58,239
they said that a lot with the report

3343
01:59:00,550 --> 01:58:59,199
right

3344
01:59:03,750 --> 01:59:00,560
but

3345
01:59:06,149 --> 01:59:03,760
believe me i it would i would not

3346
01:59:07,189 --> 01:59:06,159
i would not be surprised if if if it

3347
01:59:09,030 --> 01:59:07,199
hasn't already happened that they

3348
01:59:10,950 --> 01:59:09,040
haven't tried to get out ahead of this

3349
01:59:12,390 --> 01:59:10,960
and get in touch with these elected

3350
01:59:14,629 --> 01:59:12,400
officials to say

3351
01:59:17,430 --> 01:59:14,639
we understand your curiosity

3352
01:59:18,870 --> 01:59:17,440
we are cooperating et cetera et cetera

3353
01:59:20,229 --> 01:59:18,880
but listen

3354
01:59:21,350 --> 01:59:20,239
this is

3355
01:59:24,470 --> 01:59:21,360
way

3356
01:59:26,870 --> 01:59:24,480
more involved than meets the eye

3357
01:59:28,629 --> 01:59:26,880
and here's what's at risk

3358
01:59:30,709 --> 01:59:28,639
uh number one

3359
01:59:32,550 --> 01:59:30,719
it's our national security programs

3360
01:59:34,470 --> 01:59:32,560
because maybe we have made advances

3361
01:59:36,149 --> 01:59:34,480
based on observing this technology if

3362
01:59:38,310 --> 01:59:36,159
not maybe recovering it and

3363
01:59:39,669 --> 01:59:38,320
re-engineering it or something

3364
01:59:42,149 --> 01:59:39,679
number two

3365
01:59:44,709 --> 01:59:42,159
the the verifiable fact

3366
01:59:46,470 --> 01:59:44,719
that these things exist has been let out

3367
01:59:48,310 --> 01:59:46,480
of the bag already

3368
01:59:50,229 --> 01:59:48,320
i personally believe

3369
01:59:51,750 --> 01:59:50,239
uh i i don't see how they could have

3370
01:59:53,990 --> 01:59:51,760
been looking at this for all these

3371
01:59:56,870 --> 01:59:54,000
decades and not know any more than they

3372
01:59:58,790 --> 01:59:56,880
claim to know right now that to me

3373
02:00:00,470 --> 01:59:58,800
that's just ludicrous

3374
02:00:01,589 --> 02:00:00,480
and i believe that they know that the

3375
02:00:03,910 --> 02:00:01,599
impact

3376
02:00:06,310 --> 02:00:03,920
of the let's call it what it's referred

3377
02:00:07,350 --> 02:00:06,320
to sometimes the core story

3378
02:00:09,109 --> 02:00:07,360
is uh

3379
02:00:10,950 --> 02:00:09,119
far deeper

3380
02:00:15,589 --> 02:00:10,960
far more involved

3381
02:00:18,310 --> 02:00:15,599
far more impactful far more distressing

3382
02:00:21,270 --> 02:00:18,320
and perhaps dark and foreboding

3383
02:00:23,830 --> 02:00:21,280
and perhaps it is fractious

3384
02:00:25,350 --> 02:00:23,840
to the fundamental fundamental pillars

3385
02:00:27,430 --> 02:00:25,360
of society

3386
02:00:29,430 --> 02:00:27,440
from the standpoint of organized

3387
02:00:31,270 --> 02:00:29,440
religion just perhaps

3388
02:00:33,350 --> 02:00:31,280
because if you think about it

3389
02:00:34,870 --> 02:00:33,360
i could just tell you coming if you

3390
02:00:36,629 --> 02:00:34,880
couldn't guess this already i'm from the

3391
02:00:41,350 --> 02:00:36,639
deep south

3392
02:00:42,629 --> 02:00:41,360
this is

3393
02:00:44,629 --> 02:00:42,639
you know

3394
02:00:45,990 --> 02:00:44,639
um

3395
02:00:51,830 --> 02:00:46,000
christian

3396
02:00:55,189 --> 02:00:51,840
folks here uh methodist church christ

3397
02:00:56,629 --> 02:00:55,199
a lot of catholics in my own family

3398
02:00:58,070 --> 02:00:56,639
that

3399
02:00:59,430 --> 02:00:58,080
i'm not sure

3400
02:01:01,270 --> 02:00:59,440
though i have been sort of pleasantly

3401
02:01:04,390 --> 02:01:01,280
surprised by a couple of by my

3402
02:01:06,870 --> 02:01:04,400
sister-in-law who's really very

3403
02:01:09,109 --> 02:01:06,880
devout catholic

3404
02:01:11,270 --> 02:01:09,119
showing great interest in this topic not

3405
02:01:12,390 --> 02:01:11,280
afraid to talk about it at all

3406
02:01:14,629 --> 02:01:12,400
but to

3407
02:01:16,950 --> 02:01:14,639
let's say you know that that the core

3408
02:01:19,750 --> 02:01:16,960
story is is is true and some of the

3409
02:01:23,189 --> 02:01:19,760
darker things that dr david jacobs

3410
02:01:26,629 --> 02:01:23,199
has has uncovered um and others looking

3411
02:01:29,430 --> 02:01:26,639
into the john mack the late john mack

3412
02:01:30,790 --> 02:01:29,440
uh that that perhaps we perhaps we are

3413
02:01:33,750 --> 02:01:30,800
not

3414
02:01:36,709 --> 02:01:33,760
who we think we are or where we we're

3415
02:01:38,550 --> 02:01:36,719
from where we think we're from

3416
02:01:42,229 --> 02:01:38,560
or if you go another step and you look

3417
02:01:44,229 --> 02:01:42,239
at what ttsa has started with the books

3418
02:01:46,709 --> 02:01:44,239
god's man in war

3419
02:01:49,430 --> 02:01:46,719
and we're a cargo cult

3420
02:01:51,750 --> 02:01:49,440
and religions created based on things

3421
02:01:55,750 --> 02:01:51,760
that humans observed

3422
02:01:58,709 --> 02:01:57,350
what are you going to do

3423
02:01:59,750 --> 02:01:58,719
we sort of talked about this the other

3424
02:02:01,910 --> 02:01:59,760
day

3425
02:02:05,910 --> 02:02:01,920
you know when you uh

3426
02:02:07,910 --> 02:02:05,920
you you know the annual hajj pilgrimage

3427
02:02:09,990 --> 02:02:07,920
for for the muslim faith

3428
02:02:12,790 --> 02:02:10,000
you see the pictures

3429
02:02:15,910 --> 02:02:12,800
of of a million people

3430
02:02:18,629 --> 02:02:15,920
all crammed in there

3431
02:02:20,229 --> 02:02:18,639
in this one location they are so and in

3432
02:02:21,990 --> 02:02:20,239
some parts of that world over there in

3433
02:02:23,990 --> 02:02:22,000
the middle east i've been there

3434
02:02:27,589 --> 02:02:24,000
yeah when you're in dubai

3435
02:02:30,709 --> 02:02:27,599
and abu dhabi and bahrain it's like

3436
02:02:33,189 --> 02:02:30,719
being in a in a futuristic movie

3437
02:02:35,510 --> 02:02:33,199
the the wealth and the technological

3438
02:02:37,189 --> 02:02:35,520
development is just

3439
02:02:39,830 --> 02:02:37,199
in many cases way beyond what you see in

3440
02:02:42,070 --> 02:02:39,840
this country the city skylines but if

3441
02:02:44,149 --> 02:02:42,080
you drive in some cases less than a half

3442
02:02:46,950 --> 02:02:44,159
mile outside the city

3443
02:02:49,189 --> 02:02:46,960
you quickly get into squalor

3444
02:02:51,510 --> 02:02:49,199
and you get into

3445
02:02:52,709 --> 02:02:51,520
neighborhoods where these people all

3446
02:02:54,390 --> 02:02:52,719
they have

3447
02:02:56,709 --> 02:02:54,400
is family

3448
02:02:57,750 --> 02:02:56,719
and their god right

3449
02:02:59,669 --> 02:02:57,760
and

3450
02:03:02,310 --> 02:02:59,679
are you going to risk

3451
02:03:05,510 --> 02:03:02,320
tearing that all down if all of if if

3452
02:03:07,350 --> 02:03:05,520
that core story is is true

3453
02:03:10,149 --> 02:03:07,360
that

3454
02:03:11,430 --> 02:03:10,159
we've been tampered with and

3455
02:03:12,870 --> 02:03:11,440
you know i don't want to get into all

3456
02:03:14,709 --> 02:03:12,880
that i don't want to make people think

3457
02:03:18,390 --> 02:03:14,719
i'm

3458
02:03:20,790 --> 02:03:18,400
threads on things that have been

3459
02:03:21,990 --> 02:03:20,800
assembled you're a very for somebody in

3460
02:03:24,390 --> 02:03:22,000
your position you're one of the most

3461
02:03:26,310 --> 02:03:24,400
open-minded people i've met in with your

3462
02:03:27,669 --> 02:03:26,320
credibility and we will we can talk

3463
02:03:29,990 --> 02:03:27,679
about that stuff

3464
02:03:31,830 --> 02:03:30,000
on future shows because i'm

3465
02:03:34,149 --> 02:03:31,840
we can do with just questions for the

3466
02:03:35,669 --> 02:03:34,159
entire show because i know you have a

3467
02:03:37,510 --> 02:03:35,679
knowledge base where you basically

3468
02:03:39,510 --> 02:03:37,520
there's nothing i can't ask you i

3469
02:03:42,550 --> 02:03:39,520
believe that's my opinion from talking

3470
02:03:44,709 --> 02:03:42,560
to you so yeah um let me just get to

3471
02:03:46,470 --> 02:03:44,719
some quick questions valet what books do

3472
02:03:48,069 --> 02:03:46,480
you recommend and let me know when you

3473
02:03:50,629 --> 02:03:48,079
have to go and we'll just end it

3474
02:03:53,350 --> 02:03:50,639
i'm fine uh all of them

3475
02:03:55,350 --> 02:03:53,360
okay and what i do i think it's great if

3476
02:03:57,830 --> 02:03:55,360
you can get them on paperback uh or

3477
02:03:59,750 --> 02:03:57,840
hardcover is great i made the mistake of

3478
02:04:03,350 --> 02:03:59,760
going with the kindle app years ago and

3479
02:04:05,350 --> 02:04:03,360
it's i i regret it now and what valet

3480
02:04:07,430 --> 02:04:05,360
books i've got six or seven

3481
02:04:09,030 --> 02:04:07,440
uh i do have to say it's really easy to

3482
02:04:10,550 --> 02:04:09,040
go through and word search them like if

3483
02:04:13,510 --> 02:04:10,560
i quickly want to go

3484
02:04:15,830 --> 02:04:13,520
yeah i've read them all over time but if

3485
02:04:17,910 --> 02:04:15,840
i want to go if if i like something

3486
02:04:20,069 --> 02:04:17,920
comes out especially before the report

3487
02:04:21,430 --> 02:04:20,079
came out this this summer

3488
02:04:23,189 --> 02:04:21,440
things were happening left and right

3489
02:04:24,470 --> 02:04:23,199
right every every few days there's some

3490
02:04:26,229 --> 02:04:24,480
new revelation

3491
02:04:28,550 --> 02:04:26,239
some new quote unquote leak

3492
02:04:31,669 --> 02:04:28,560
and and i would go and work search like

3493
02:04:33,030 --> 02:04:31,679
valet's books for some name like put off

3494
02:04:33,990 --> 02:04:33,040
hal put off

3495
02:04:38,550 --> 02:04:34,000
or

3496
02:04:40,870 --> 02:04:38,560
know on kindle you can do that on the

3497
02:04:43,030 --> 02:04:40,880
kindle app it's great that's kind of the

3498
02:04:44,709 --> 02:04:43,040
one thing i like about otherwise i'd

3499
02:04:46,229 --> 02:04:44,719
much rather

3500
02:04:48,629 --> 02:04:46,239
have the real you see i don't have that

3501
02:04:49,910 --> 02:04:48,639
many books and that's because i made the

3502
02:04:52,229 --> 02:04:49,920
mistake

3503
02:04:54,149 --> 02:04:52,239
of getting them electronically and it's

3504
02:04:55,430 --> 02:04:54,159
maybe that's for some people but really

3505
02:04:56,870 --> 02:04:55,440
i kind of regret it because i kind of

3506
02:04:58,950 --> 02:04:56,880
like to have something to pass on you

3507
02:05:00,790 --> 02:04:58,960
know to my to my boys

3508
02:05:02,310 --> 02:05:00,800
one of these days

3509
02:05:04,069 --> 02:05:02,320
just one example of why i'd like to have

3510
02:05:05,270 --> 02:05:04,079
the plus it's enjoyable reading hardback

3511
02:05:06,069 --> 02:05:05,280
but go ahead what was your other

3512
02:05:08,149 --> 02:05:06,079
question

3513
02:05:14,069 --> 02:05:08,159
all of ballet's books to me

3514
02:05:18,310 --> 02:05:16,069
did we freeze up uh your opinion on rick

3515
02:05:19,430 --> 02:05:18,320
doty

3516
02:05:21,510 --> 02:05:19,440
oh i

3517
02:05:22,390 --> 02:05:21,520
i don't know i'm able to hear me now

3518
02:05:23,669 --> 02:05:22,400
michael

3519
02:05:26,790 --> 02:05:23,679
yeah

3520
02:05:29,589 --> 02:05:26,800
i i don't uh i know who he is and i know

3521
02:05:31,350 --> 02:05:29,599
what the claims about him are and i can

3522
02:05:34,870 --> 02:05:31,360
see them uh

3523
02:05:38,149 --> 02:05:34,880
doing some some pretty um underhanded

3524
02:05:39,350 --> 02:05:38,159
stuff like like the benowitz thing

3525
02:05:41,669 --> 02:05:39,360
you know

3526
02:05:44,229 --> 02:05:41,679
you have to go back to that and go

3527
02:05:45,990 --> 02:05:44,239
what is the main objective

3528
02:05:48,310 --> 02:05:46,000
okay

3529
02:05:50,069 --> 02:05:48,320
so if you think of things in those terms

3530
02:05:51,830 --> 02:05:50,079
and you look at that situation and you

3531
02:05:53,830 --> 02:05:51,840
look at the government trying to

3532
02:05:55,350 --> 02:05:53,840
safeguard whatever sensitive information

3533
02:05:57,189 --> 02:05:55,360
they've got what is the primary

3534
02:06:00,069 --> 02:05:57,199
objective it's safeguarding that

3535
02:06:01,750 --> 02:06:00,079
information so

3536
02:06:02,709 --> 02:06:01,760
venomous apparently was seeing some

3537
02:06:04,790 --> 02:06:02,719
things he

3538
02:06:06,870 --> 02:06:04,800
unlike most ordinary citizens he was a

3539
02:06:08,310 --> 02:06:06,880
little more switched on about it and had

3540
02:06:10,310 --> 02:06:08,320
a vantage point to see some of this

3541
02:06:11,669 --> 02:06:10,320
stuff going on and

3542
02:06:13,109 --> 02:06:11,679
and apparently that was made them a

3543
02:06:15,350 --> 02:06:13,119
little uncomfortable

3544
02:06:18,390 --> 02:06:15,360
i don't know how much of all that's true

3545
02:06:20,870 --> 02:06:18,400
um but apparently they did a major

3546
02:06:21,830 --> 02:06:20,880
information operation on him

3547
02:06:24,870 --> 02:06:21,840
that

3548
02:06:26,550 --> 02:06:24,880
and he was probably you know

3549
02:06:29,510 --> 02:06:26,560
god rest his soul but i mean maybe he

3550
02:06:30,950 --> 02:06:29,520
was wrapped a little too tight

3551
02:06:33,109 --> 02:06:30,960
about it

3552
02:06:35,109 --> 02:06:33,119
and taking things a little too serious i

3553
02:06:36,550 --> 02:06:35,119
don't know i mean i anything i would say

3554
02:06:38,790 --> 02:06:36,560
like that would be probably unfair to

3555
02:06:42,069 --> 02:06:38,800
him but but um

3556
02:06:46,390 --> 02:06:42,079
i think dodie was discharging his duties

3557
02:06:48,229 --> 02:06:46,400
that's that's my impression and that uh

3558
02:06:50,229 --> 02:06:48,239
yeah that's what he said he says he says

3559
02:06:52,470 --> 02:06:50,239
he was following orders lou says it was

3560
02:06:54,069 --> 02:06:52,480
just a couple of rogue people not

3561
02:06:57,589 --> 02:06:54,079
following orders

3562
02:07:00,310 --> 02:06:57,599
i've met i've met dodie i met

3563
02:07:03,510 --> 02:07:00,320
dodie with nicole sakic and

3564
02:07:05,510 --> 02:07:03,520
very likable guy very likable guy and i

3565
02:07:07,510 --> 02:07:05,520
enjoyed listening to him as far as all

3566
02:07:09,589 --> 02:07:07,520
the details his story is different than

3567
02:07:11,270 --> 02:07:09,599
the other story you hear but me

3568
02:07:13,430 --> 02:07:11,280
personally i think it's worth listening

3569
02:07:15,750 --> 02:07:13,440
to him i think there is some truth in

3570
02:07:18,149 --> 02:07:15,760
there it's hard to determine what truth

3571
02:07:20,149 --> 02:07:18,159
is you know research has to be done

3572
02:07:21,270 --> 02:07:20,159
yeah but i don't i don't i don't it's

3573
02:07:22,950 --> 02:07:21,280
not i don't think there's anybody out

3574
02:07:25,910 --> 02:07:22,960
there that i totally reject it's just

3575
02:07:27,350 --> 02:07:25,920
not in my nature to just say nope sorry

3576
02:07:29,270 --> 02:07:27,360
don't want to hear it you know he did

3577
02:07:31,430 --> 02:07:29,280
some bad stuff and he has apologized and

3578
02:07:34,229 --> 02:07:31,440
he said you know i i'm embarrassed by

3579
02:07:38,709 --> 02:07:34,239
what i've said in the past um but let's

3580
02:07:41,350 --> 02:07:38,719
move on to another easy one

3581
02:07:44,709 --> 02:07:41,360
what about bob lazar

3582
02:07:45,589 --> 02:07:44,719
oh you know i'm going to like this one

3583
02:07:47,510 --> 02:07:45,599
uh

3584
02:07:49,669 --> 02:07:47,520
i

3585
02:07:52,709 --> 02:07:49,679
uh

3586
02:07:54,470 --> 02:07:52,719
kind of i liken bob lazar

3587
02:07:55,189 --> 02:07:54,480
in a different way

3588
02:07:56,390 --> 02:07:55,199
to

3589
02:07:58,870 --> 02:07:56,400
my same

3590
02:08:01,910 --> 02:07:58,880
view of the information

3591
02:08:03,910 --> 02:08:01,920
the quality of the information um

3592
02:08:05,510 --> 02:08:03,920
around the wilson davis leagues

3593
02:08:09,430 --> 02:08:05,520
in a different an entirely different

3594
02:08:11,990 --> 02:08:09,440
sense but applying the same

3595
02:08:12,950 --> 02:08:12,000
information or analytical techniques to

3596
02:08:14,629 --> 02:08:12,960
it

3597
02:08:16,470 --> 02:08:14,639
um

3598
02:08:18,629 --> 02:08:16,480
i believe

3599
02:08:19,430 --> 02:08:18,639
and there's a number of things

3600
02:08:24,149 --> 02:08:19,440
that

3601
02:08:26,470 --> 02:08:24,159
believer let's just take for example the

3602
02:08:28,550 --> 02:08:26,480
test flight schedule

3603
02:08:31,510 --> 02:08:28,560
and him and you can go on youtube right

3604
02:08:33,990 --> 02:08:31,520
now and go watch the video

3605
02:08:36,390 --> 02:08:34,000
of a nighttime video

3606
02:08:38,629 --> 02:08:36,400
of of this whatever it is doing

3607
02:08:41,030 --> 02:08:38,639
loop-de-loops you know

3608
02:08:43,270 --> 02:08:41,040
over the mountaintop when he and john

3609
02:08:44,629 --> 02:08:43,280
lear and uh

3610
02:08:46,709 --> 02:08:44,639
and his

3611
02:08:48,550 --> 02:08:46,719
sidekick gene huff

3612
02:08:51,750 --> 02:08:48,560
were out there in the desert

3613
02:08:54,950 --> 02:08:51,760
with their rv and their night scope

3614
02:08:57,270 --> 02:08:54,960
how did he know on wednesday nights

3615
02:08:59,750 --> 02:08:57,280
that those things were test flown

3616
02:09:01,830 --> 02:08:59,760
he he he claimed he knew the test flight

3617
02:09:04,149 --> 02:09:01,840
scheduled and did he get out there just

3618
02:09:06,310 --> 02:09:04,159
one time and film it and and show his

3619
02:09:08,470 --> 02:09:06,320
friends no

3620
02:09:10,709 --> 02:09:08,480
he we went out there twice

3621
02:09:12,709 --> 02:09:10,719
and i thought i may be mistaken but it

3622
02:09:13,669 --> 02:09:12,719
was either twice or the third wednesday

3623
02:09:16,470 --> 02:09:13,679
night

3624
02:09:18,550 --> 02:09:16,480
that they or they got arrested right

3625
02:09:20,149 --> 02:09:18,560
right so i've but i've never seen video

3626
02:09:22,790 --> 02:09:20,159
of it doing loop-de-loops i've seen

3627
02:09:24,870 --> 02:09:22,800
video of an object going up maybe i need

3628
02:09:26,390 --> 02:09:24,880
to watch again and also i think you have

3629
02:09:28,069 --> 02:09:26,400
never seen you tell you're going to tell

3630
02:09:30,229 --> 02:09:28,079
me how long you've been doing this

3631
02:09:31,910 --> 02:09:30,239
you've never seen it doing it and i

3632
02:09:33,669 --> 02:09:31,920
probably have seen it and i forgot

3633
02:09:36,149 --> 02:09:33,679
because i do not have a great memory

3634
02:09:37,270 --> 02:09:36,159
i'll look again but

3635
02:09:40,390 --> 02:09:37,280
but the

3636
02:09:41,430 --> 02:09:40,400
tom hood explanation who did some great

3637
02:09:44,629 --> 02:09:41,440
work

3638
02:09:47,030 --> 02:09:44,639
opposing lazar he says it was an iron

3639
02:09:49,830 --> 02:09:47,040
some sort of particle beam weapon test

3640
02:09:51,669 --> 02:09:49,840
that he should have not have seen yeah

3641
02:09:54,310 --> 02:09:51,679
but that's what he is and then dr eric

3642
02:09:57,430 --> 02:09:54,320
davis who who i'm pretty close with he

3643
02:10:00,069 --> 02:09:57,440
is so anti-lazar yeah no i don't know

3644
02:10:01,589 --> 02:10:00,079
and i have i i have a hard time

3645
02:10:03,189 --> 02:10:01,599
reconciling

3646
02:10:05,270 --> 02:10:03,199
davis's

3647
02:10:07,189 --> 02:10:05,280
opinion of lazar

3648
02:10:10,550 --> 02:10:07,199
with

3649
02:10:12,629 --> 02:10:10,560
my own or george knapp's

3650
02:10:14,470 --> 02:10:12,639
opinion of bob lazar

3651
02:10:17,830 --> 02:10:14,480
bob lazar is

3652
02:10:19,109 --> 02:10:17,840
an exceedingly bright person

3653
02:10:23,430 --> 02:10:19,119
and

3654
02:10:25,430 --> 02:10:23,440
in my company

3655
02:10:26,870 --> 02:10:25,440
uh write resumes

3656
02:10:30,390 --> 02:10:26,880
okay

3657
02:10:33,270 --> 02:10:30,400
resume writing so so is it conceivable

3658
02:10:35,189 --> 02:10:33,280
that he lied on his resume you bet

3659
02:10:36,709 --> 02:10:35,199
absolutely

3660
02:10:37,589 --> 02:10:36,719
um

3661
02:10:39,189 --> 02:10:37,599
that's

3662
02:10:39,990 --> 02:10:39,199
not unheard of

3663
02:10:44,870 --> 02:10:40,000
now

3664
02:10:47,589 --> 02:10:44,880
in my line of work that's a real no-no

3665
02:10:49,430 --> 02:10:47,599
right because

3666
02:10:51,350 --> 02:10:49,440
you're gonna everything's gonna be

3667
02:10:52,229 --> 02:10:51,360
looked into there's gonna be some pretty

3668
02:10:54,629 --> 02:10:52,239
con

3669
02:10:57,830 --> 02:10:54,639
pretty serious vetting so you you know

3670
02:11:00,149 --> 02:10:57,840
you wouldn't chance it but when you know

3671
02:11:04,390 --> 02:11:00,159
back in the day before the internet was

3672
02:11:06,069 --> 02:11:04,400
really a thing a big thing and uh

3673
02:11:09,589 --> 02:11:06,079
you were trying to get a job trying to

3674
02:11:12,790 --> 02:11:09,599
get an end right and and and and to say

3675
02:11:14,629 --> 02:11:12,800
i don't know how he became so

3676
02:11:16,790 --> 02:11:14,639
there there's having the qualifications

3677
02:11:19,750 --> 02:11:16,800
of a physicist

3678
02:11:22,149 --> 02:11:19,760
and talking like an eric davis

3679
02:11:24,470 --> 02:11:22,159
uh you know as far as being conversant

3680
02:11:26,870 --> 02:11:24,480
in all the terminology

3681
02:11:33,109 --> 02:11:29,669
from a scholastic education

3682
02:11:36,790 --> 02:11:33,119
but how do you pick that up as a layman

3683
02:11:40,149 --> 02:11:36,800
and be it and describe in such in such

3684
02:11:41,510 --> 02:11:40,159
great detail and in such lengths

3685
02:11:43,669 --> 02:11:41,520
um

3686
02:11:46,629 --> 02:11:43,679
some of these concepts that he has

3687
02:11:49,030 --> 02:11:46,639
described back in what the late 80s

3688
02:11:50,069 --> 02:11:49,040
all the way up to when he finally went

3689
02:11:52,390 --> 02:11:50,079
silent

3690
02:11:53,910 --> 02:11:52,400
uh in the early 90s

3691
02:11:56,870 --> 02:11:53,920
um

3692
02:11:58,950 --> 02:11:56,880
because he was catching so much flack

3693
02:12:01,109 --> 02:11:58,960
but some of the stuff that he said has

3694
02:12:03,270 --> 02:12:01,119
been since been verified

3695
02:12:05,109 --> 02:12:03,280
not just some of the stuff i mean i i

3696
02:12:07,830 --> 02:12:05,119
would just tell anybody don't believe me

3697
02:12:09,270 --> 02:12:07,840
i that's my stance is i think that he

3698
02:12:12,069 --> 02:12:09,280
did work there

3699
02:12:13,030 --> 02:12:12,079
i think he did see the things he saw

3700
02:12:15,669 --> 02:12:13,040
um

3701
02:12:17,830 --> 02:12:15,679
i think he did uh he did whatever he

3702
02:12:18,790 --> 02:12:17,840
needed to do to get a job and i will

3703
02:12:20,470 --> 02:12:18,800
tell you

3704
02:12:22,709 --> 02:12:20,480
i don't probably have time for it now

3705
02:12:24,069 --> 02:12:22,719
and i'm okay on time by the way but

3706
02:12:25,910 --> 02:12:24,079
maybe this is

3707
02:12:27,750 --> 02:12:25,920
i'll tell you offline and by the way

3708
02:12:29,589 --> 02:12:27,760
other people are other people are really

3709
02:12:32,149 --> 02:12:29,599
realizing why i was so excited to have

3710
02:12:33,990 --> 02:12:32,159
you because as lou said from a unified

3711
02:12:37,109 --> 02:12:34,000
celebrity review your wealth of

3712
02:12:39,109 --> 02:12:37,119
knowledge is amazing it's like

3713
02:12:41,430 --> 02:12:39,119
and you can educate me on so many things

3714
02:12:43,669 --> 02:12:41,440
that i either forgot or don't know so

3715
02:12:45,350 --> 02:12:43,679
anyway we will definitely do this again

3716
02:12:46,790 --> 02:12:45,360
oh well that's something what you were

3717
02:12:48,629 --> 02:12:46,800
saying sorry i had to interrupt you for

3718
02:12:50,709 --> 02:12:48,639
that well my wealth of knowledge i

3719
02:12:54,310 --> 02:12:50,719
didn't i wasn't always

3720
02:12:56,310 --> 02:12:54,320
this wrapped around this topic but uh

3721
02:12:58,950 --> 02:12:56,320
that i saw this video

3722
02:12:59,910 --> 02:12:58,960
about 2014

3723
02:13:01,669 --> 02:12:59,920
um

3724
02:13:03,189 --> 02:13:01,679
the one that has the two vehicles one

3725
02:13:04,950 --> 02:13:03,199
hut that we looked at

3726
02:13:06,550 --> 02:13:04,960
one hovering above the other and then

3727
02:13:07,830 --> 02:13:06,560
they then they break apart and they show

3728
02:13:10,870 --> 02:13:07,840
the other side i think it's really

3729
02:13:13,109 --> 02:13:10,880
interesting yeah i saw that

3730
02:13:14,950 --> 02:13:13,119
online

3731
02:13:17,270 --> 02:13:14,960
it seemed like

3732
02:13:18,950 --> 02:13:17,280
every few years um

3733
02:13:21,430 --> 02:13:18,960
i would

3734
02:13:22,950 --> 02:13:21,440
during the middle 2000s i might uh go

3735
02:13:25,430 --> 02:13:22,960
off and google something

3736
02:13:27,189 --> 02:13:25,440
like fly black flying triangle just to

3737
02:13:28,470 --> 02:13:27,199
try to i was trying to make sense of

3738
02:13:30,470 --> 02:13:28,480
what i saw

3739
02:13:32,550 --> 02:13:30,480
other than that uh

3740
02:13:34,950 --> 02:13:32,560
i didn't really give it much thought

3741
02:13:36,950 --> 02:13:34,960
uh and then i saw that video

3742
02:13:38,310 --> 02:13:36,960
and and i what i remember watching and

3743
02:13:41,430 --> 02:13:38,320
they don't those two vehicles don't

3744
02:13:42,870 --> 02:13:41,440
separate until near the very end

3745
02:13:44,470 --> 02:13:42,880
and it was just like complete

3746
02:13:46,790 --> 02:13:44,480
happenstance

3747
02:13:48,310 --> 02:13:46,800
that i stayed on that video long enough

3748
02:13:50,790 --> 02:13:48,320
to see that happen because i really

3749
02:13:52,870 --> 02:13:50,800
wasn't searching on ufos or anything

3750
02:13:55,109 --> 02:13:52,880
you have to

3751
02:13:58,390 --> 02:13:55,119
i mean i could not just be more emphatic

3752
02:14:00,470 --> 02:13:58,400
about this my job i was working

3753
02:14:01,669 --> 02:14:00,480
you know you know all this for over 20

3754
02:14:04,149 --> 02:14:01,679
something years in the in the

3755
02:14:05,990 --> 02:14:04,159
intelligence community

3756
02:14:07,589 --> 02:14:06,000
and especially at the national

3757
02:14:10,069 --> 02:14:07,599
reconnaissance office

3758
02:14:12,149 --> 02:14:10,079
a couple times there i went digging

3759
02:14:14,950 --> 02:14:12,159
on my own quietly trying to find out

3760
02:14:16,790 --> 02:14:14,960
what it was i saw i never found and and

3761
02:14:18,629 --> 02:14:16,800
of course if i did find something at

3762
02:14:20,149 --> 02:14:18,639
work that indicated that it was

3763
02:14:23,270 --> 02:14:20,159
i wouldn't be talking about it here

3764
02:14:26,310 --> 02:14:23,280
obviously um

3765
02:14:28,390 --> 02:14:26,320
but it was about 24

3766
02:14:30,550 --> 02:14:28,400
when i came across that video

3767
02:14:32,709 --> 02:14:30,560
and when i saw that and realized that

3768
02:14:34,950 --> 02:14:32,719
someone had videoed

3769
02:14:37,510 --> 02:14:34,960
almost exactly what i saw and not only

3770
02:14:39,270 --> 02:14:37,520
that two of them apparently

3771
02:14:41,830 --> 02:14:39,280
because

3772
02:14:44,790 --> 02:14:41,840
i mean you can fool me

3773
02:14:46,550 --> 02:14:44,800
as easy as it is to fool anybody if you

3774
02:14:48,709 --> 02:14:46,560
know what you're doing with graphics

3775
02:14:51,109 --> 02:14:48,719
computer graphics you know um yeah it's

3776
02:14:53,109 --> 02:14:51,119
very i don't know nowadays i don't watch

3777
02:14:54,950 --> 02:14:53,119
that much television really

3778
02:14:56,950 --> 02:14:54,960
and it does kind of annoy me when i

3779
02:14:59,109 --> 02:14:56,960
watch it when i'm watching 4k now

3780
02:15:00,790 --> 02:14:59,119
because it looks almost like

3781
02:15:02,310 --> 02:15:00,800
too real looks almost like video

3782
02:15:04,550 --> 02:15:02,320
game-ish to me

3783
02:15:08,149 --> 02:15:04,560
or something it it looks like an effect

3784
02:15:09,830 --> 02:15:08,159
when in reality it's just ultra clarity

3785
02:15:11,910 --> 02:15:09,840
and i took me a long time because i'm

3786
02:15:13,669 --> 02:15:11,920
not a big movie watcher i'm not a big tv

3787
02:15:18,550 --> 02:15:13,679
watcher even though i have you know

3788
02:15:22,790 --> 02:15:20,470
anyway

3789
02:15:25,270 --> 02:15:22,800
i could be fooled but when you watch

3790
02:15:27,830 --> 02:15:25,280
that video that i'm talking about

3791
02:15:29,430 --> 02:15:27,840
to me that it's very clearly a homemade

3792
02:15:30,790 --> 02:15:29,440
video

3793
02:15:32,390 --> 02:15:30,800
if you want to pull it up you can pull

3794
02:15:34,709 --> 02:15:32,400
it up quickly and we can't go too much

3795
02:15:36,709 --> 02:15:34,719
longer because i have to let the dog eat

3796
02:15:39,589 --> 02:15:36,719
and go out if you want to pull that

3797
02:15:42,310 --> 02:15:39,599
video up well the one that i've got it

3798
02:15:43,990 --> 02:15:42,320
has the goofy music that somebody else

3799
02:15:45,589 --> 02:15:44,000
but the original

3800
02:15:47,830 --> 02:15:45,599
yeah you could play it i don't think the

3801
02:15:49,910 --> 02:15:47,840
original has

3802
02:15:52,069 --> 02:15:49,920
you what you hear is nothing you hear no

3803
02:15:54,149 --> 02:15:52,079
one talking until they separate until

3804
02:15:56,069 --> 02:15:54,159
the two vehicles separate

3805
02:15:58,550 --> 02:15:56,079
while they're hovering together

3806
02:16:00,870 --> 02:15:58,560
and um

3807
02:16:03,510 --> 02:16:00,880
and you hear the guy whistle to somebody

3808
02:16:05,270 --> 02:16:03,520
next to him he's like hey

3809
02:16:07,990 --> 02:16:05,280
or something to that effect then you

3810
02:16:11,430 --> 02:16:08,000
hear him go whoa right

3811
02:16:12,310 --> 02:16:11,440
i mean it's to me it's it's very clearly

3812
02:16:14,390 --> 02:16:12,320
um

3813
02:16:16,830 --> 02:16:14,400
it's an interesting video i mean

3814
02:16:20,390 --> 02:16:16,840
an authentic it looks it looks just

3815
02:16:22,310 --> 02:16:20,400
authentic hold on let's see

3816
02:16:24,149 --> 02:16:22,320
um there it is

3817
02:16:25,430 --> 02:16:24,159
yeah yeah and i've seen it before and i

3818
02:16:26,950 --> 02:16:25,440
loved it when i saw it i don't know if

3819
02:16:28,310 --> 02:16:26,960
it's real or not because i'm not a video

3820
02:16:31,030 --> 02:16:28,320
analyst but you can play it and people

3821
02:16:32,870 --> 02:16:31,040
can at least see it yeah so and so for

3822
02:16:35,270 --> 02:16:32,880
the people listening

3823
02:16:38,469 --> 02:16:35,280
they after my interview with lou for

3824
02:16:40,629 --> 02:16:38,479
unidentified the next hour part of that

3825
02:16:43,830 --> 02:16:40,639
was spent watching this video with the

3826
02:16:46,150 --> 02:16:43,840
show's producer and he was asking me

3827
02:16:47,669 --> 02:16:46,160
about this video did this look like what

3828
02:16:49,429 --> 02:16:47,679
i saw yes

3829
02:16:50,950 --> 02:16:49,439
what do i think is going on here and and

3830
02:16:52,309 --> 02:16:50,960
that was a little uncomfortable because

3831
02:16:55,589 --> 02:16:52,319
of course i don't know i can only

3832
02:16:56,629 --> 02:16:55,599
speculate but that's all that is and

3833
02:16:58,230 --> 02:16:56,639
the

3834
02:16:59,910 --> 02:16:58,240
this is a copy

3835
02:17:01,429 --> 02:16:59,920
maybe i don't know maybe i took i put

3836
02:17:03,270 --> 02:17:01,439
this on one of those websites that lets

3837
02:17:05,589 --> 02:17:03,280
you burn it or whatever you call it lets

3838
02:17:08,150 --> 02:17:05,599
you pull it down from youtube there is a

3839
02:17:10,469 --> 02:17:08,160
clearer version of this but it's not

3840
02:17:11,910 --> 02:17:10,479
that clear so i'll play it and so what

3841
02:17:14,549 --> 02:17:11,920
you're going to see is these two

3842
02:17:16,150 --> 02:17:14,559
triangles are hovering obviously

3843
02:17:18,230 --> 02:17:16,160
the clarity is not great enough to tell

3844
02:17:20,389 --> 02:17:18,240
if there's actually you know something

3845
02:17:22,230 --> 02:17:20,399
connecting them but i don't think there

3846
02:17:23,669 --> 02:17:22,240
is doesn't like it and there's some

3847
02:17:25,990 --> 02:17:23,679
other vehicle

3848
02:17:27,509 --> 02:17:26,000
that's orbiting around them so the

3849
02:17:28,549 --> 02:17:27,519
unidentified producer said what do you

3850
02:17:30,150 --> 02:17:28,559
think's going on here i said well i

3851
02:17:31,750 --> 02:17:30,160
don't know i said but i was i was

3852
02:17:34,549 --> 02:17:31,760
involved for quite a long time with

3853
02:17:36,469 --> 02:17:34,559
operational readiness testing of systems

3854
02:17:39,349 --> 02:17:36,479
and what this

3855
02:17:40,870 --> 02:17:39,359
looks like it could potentially be

3856
02:17:43,429 --> 02:17:40,880
you know

3857
02:17:44,870 --> 02:17:43,439
there's some sort of a test going on i

3858
02:17:48,469 --> 02:17:44,880
would imagine

3859
02:17:50,309 --> 02:17:48,479
um and and this vehicle is observing it

3860
02:17:52,389 --> 02:17:50,319
and it's gonna orbit a couple of times

3861
02:17:53,830 --> 02:17:52,399
and then it's gonna back away

3862
02:17:55,190 --> 02:17:53,840
when these two guys get ready to

3863
02:17:57,910 --> 02:17:55,200
separate

3864
02:17:59,830 --> 02:17:57,920
they're going to pitch up

3865
02:18:01,190 --> 02:17:59,840
and show their underbellies to the to

3866
02:18:03,190 --> 02:18:01,200
the camera

3867
02:18:04,629 --> 02:18:03,200
so hopefully you guys i can hear the

3868
02:18:09,349 --> 02:18:04,639
music but hopefully you can't because

3869
02:18:13,750 --> 02:18:11,750
no there's no sound that's good

3870
02:18:16,389 --> 02:18:13,760
and i believe that

3871
02:18:19,750 --> 02:18:16,399
that this is a smaller version of them

3872
02:18:20,870 --> 02:18:19,760
but it's so unclear so blurry you can't

3873
02:18:22,950 --> 02:18:20,880
really tell

3874
02:18:25,990 --> 02:18:22,960
but you see no rotors turning it's not

3875
02:18:33,429 --> 02:18:26,000
it doesn't appear to be a helicopter

3876
02:18:37,190 --> 02:18:35,429
so during the original the guy that's

3877
02:18:39,110 --> 02:18:37,200
filming it still hasn't said anything

3878
02:18:41,349 --> 02:18:39,120
and all of a sudden now he whistles to

3879
02:18:42,870 --> 02:18:41,359
his buddy

3880
02:18:44,549 --> 02:18:42,880
and now you see

3881
02:18:47,030 --> 02:18:44,559
the telltale

3882
02:18:47,910 --> 02:18:47,040
bright spots in the corners

3883
02:18:54,389 --> 02:18:47,920
and

3884
02:18:56,469 --> 02:18:54,399
about

3885
02:18:58,549 --> 02:18:56,479
some sort of a power system

3886
02:19:01,910 --> 02:18:58,559
how close is that to what you saw

3887
02:19:04,389 --> 02:19:01,920
right here well this except for

3888
02:19:06,469 --> 02:19:04,399
the center bright spot which i couldn't

3889
02:19:07,349 --> 02:19:06,479
see because it was it was much hazier

3890
02:19:08,950 --> 02:19:07,359
for me

3891
02:19:11,110 --> 02:19:08,960
hazy and humid looking up through the

3892
02:19:13,669 --> 02:19:11,120
atmosphere through the sky

3893
02:19:15,509 --> 02:19:13,679
i didn't i didn't notice maybe it was

3894
02:19:17,830 --> 02:19:15,519
there but i didn't see this part but

3895
02:19:21,349 --> 02:19:17,840
this is identical

3896
02:19:22,549 --> 02:19:21,359
absolute identical 100 percent

3897
02:19:24,950 --> 02:19:22,559
what i saw

3898
02:19:26,389 --> 02:19:24,960
look at that

3899
02:19:27,190 --> 02:19:26,399
um

3900
02:19:30,950 --> 02:19:27,200
and

3901
02:19:33,349 --> 02:19:30,960
think this guy's dead now but there was

3902
02:19:35,270 --> 02:19:33,359
a guy an air force guy named ed fouche

3903
02:19:37,910 --> 02:19:35,280
who claimed he wrote a book

3904
02:19:39,830 --> 02:19:37,920
uh called alien rapture or something and

3905
02:19:42,389 --> 02:19:39,840
he sort of told his story in fiction

3906
02:19:45,830 --> 02:19:42,399
about how he knew about this vehicle

3907
02:19:49,750 --> 02:19:47,830
the cockpit on this thing now we're

3908
02:19:51,429 --> 02:19:49,760
looking apparently at the bottom of it

3909
02:19:53,429 --> 02:19:51,439
but the cockpit is on the other side

3910
02:19:55,910 --> 02:19:53,439
it's on the top in the center

3911
02:19:58,070 --> 02:19:55,920
and according to fouche

3912
02:20:01,190 --> 02:19:58,080
and what he was told

3913
02:20:03,590 --> 02:20:01,200
that cockpit is retractable down inside

3914
02:20:04,950 --> 02:20:03,600
this sort of to make it more uh to make

3915
02:20:08,790 --> 02:20:04,960
the aerodynamic the surface more

3916
02:20:10,710 --> 02:20:08,800
aerodynamic for high speed flight

3917
02:20:13,110 --> 02:20:10,720
if if you think about it

3918
02:20:14,870 --> 02:20:13,120
if this uh so let's let's say that it's

3919
02:20:16,710 --> 02:20:14,880
not showing us the bottom let's pretend

3920
02:20:19,030 --> 02:20:16,720
for a second we don't see these three

3921
02:20:20,870 --> 02:20:19,040
bright spots then we only see this this

3922
02:20:22,389 --> 02:20:20,880
right here and let's pretend we're

3923
02:20:23,349 --> 02:20:22,399
looking at the top of it instead of the

3924
02:20:25,349 --> 02:20:23,359
bottom

3925
02:20:27,830 --> 02:20:25,359
and we're looking at the cockpit

3926
02:20:30,710 --> 02:20:29,429
if they're stacked on top of one another

3927
02:20:32,309 --> 02:20:30,720
in a hover

3928
02:20:33,990 --> 02:20:32,319
then the guy on the bottom can look up

3929
02:20:35,910 --> 02:20:34,000
and see the guy above him

3930
02:20:37,510 --> 02:20:35,920
but unless there's sensors on the bottom

3931
02:20:39,190 --> 02:20:37,520
and cameras the guy that's that's

3932
02:20:41,110 --> 02:20:39,200
hovering on top can't see the guy on the

3933
02:20:43,270 --> 02:20:41,120
bottom so

3934
02:20:45,830 --> 02:20:43,280
what do pilots always pilots flying in

3935
02:20:47,670 --> 02:20:45,840
formation what do they do ask any

3936
02:20:50,230 --> 02:20:47,680
fighter pilot what they do

3937
02:20:51,429 --> 02:20:50,240
when they're in formation

3938
02:20:55,270 --> 02:20:51,439
they

3939
02:20:57,510 --> 02:20:55,280
communicate

3940
02:20:59,510 --> 02:20:57,520
and one of the things that they do

3941
02:21:01,750 --> 02:20:59,520
is that you're constantly looking over

3942
02:21:03,990 --> 02:21:01,760
at the aircraft that they're trying to

3943
02:21:06,230 --> 02:21:04,000
pace or keep keep wing tip to wing kip

3944
02:21:07,910 --> 02:21:06,240
or whatever you're constantly looking

3945
02:21:09,990 --> 02:21:07,920
and the only way to do that is to be in

3946
02:21:12,150 --> 02:21:10,000
an attitude where you can see the other

3947
02:21:14,230 --> 02:21:12,160
plane from your cockpit well if these

3948
02:21:15,270 --> 02:21:14,240
things are built like fouche said they

3949
02:21:18,389 --> 02:21:15,280
were

3950
02:21:19,510 --> 02:21:18,399
and if this video is real and what i saw

3951
02:21:21,750 --> 02:21:19,520
is real

3952
02:21:24,309 --> 02:21:21,760
and the cockpit is on the top in the

3953
02:21:27,190 --> 02:21:24,319
center then um

3954
02:21:29,030 --> 02:21:27,200
when they're like this

3955
02:21:31,349 --> 02:21:29,040
the guy down here the pilots down here

3956
02:21:32,469 --> 02:21:31,359
can see this guy but this guy can't see

3957
02:21:34,469 --> 02:21:32,479
them

3958
02:21:36,309 --> 02:21:34,479
but maybe he's got sensors and systems

3959
02:21:37,590 --> 02:21:36,319
that tell him the guy's below him or

3960
02:21:38,870 --> 02:21:37,600
whatever i don't know it's all

3961
02:21:41,110 --> 02:21:38,880
speculation

3962
02:21:42,630 --> 02:21:41,120
but once they're done with their little

3963
02:21:44,389 --> 02:21:42,640
test or whatever they're doing here

3964
02:21:46,309 --> 02:21:44,399
maybe they're testing the proximity

3965
02:21:49,429 --> 02:21:46,319
maybe they're testing

3966
02:21:50,950 --> 02:21:49,439
again speculation

3967
02:21:53,990 --> 02:21:50,960
maybe they're testing

3968
02:21:56,870 --> 02:21:54,000
the electromagnetic field effects of the

3969
02:21:59,750 --> 02:21:56,880
propulsion systems of each vehicle

3970
02:22:01,510 --> 02:21:59,760
in proximity to the other

3971
02:22:02,710 --> 02:22:01,520
what happens when we hover these things

3972
02:22:05,510 --> 02:22:02,720
really close

3973
02:22:08,070 --> 02:22:05,520
could we conceivably transfer equipment

3974
02:22:10,389 --> 02:22:08,080
could we transfer recruitment could we

3975
02:22:12,550 --> 02:22:10,399
could we could on radar could we make

3976
02:22:14,389 --> 02:22:12,560
ourselves look like one by getting so

3977
02:22:16,630 --> 02:22:14,399
close that we only show up as one i

3978
02:22:19,750 --> 02:22:16,640
don't know just speculation

3979
02:22:21,590 --> 02:22:19,760
but okay exercise is over

3980
02:22:24,070 --> 02:22:21,600
let's uh get ready to do something else

3981
02:22:26,950 --> 02:22:24,080
oh where are you well let's let's uh we

3982
02:22:28,469 --> 02:22:26,960
i can't tell let's let's separate

3983
02:22:30,950 --> 02:22:28,479
and uh

3984
02:22:33,270 --> 02:22:30,960
and then this guy goes oh there you are

3985
02:22:34,870 --> 02:22:33,280
i see you down there right

3986
02:22:36,389 --> 02:22:34,880
um

3987
02:22:38,150 --> 02:22:36,399
and they separate and then they kind of

3988
02:22:41,030 --> 02:22:38,160
hold position right

3989
02:22:43,670 --> 02:22:41,040
so they this guy sees him now he has

3990
02:22:45,030 --> 02:22:43,680
eyes on this guy and this guy has eyes

3991
02:22:46,710 --> 02:22:45,040
on this guy

3992
02:22:48,630 --> 02:22:46,720
that makes

3993
02:22:50,389 --> 02:22:48,640
just like a bunch of other assertions

3994
02:22:52,469 --> 02:22:50,399
could make a hundred percent

3995
02:22:54,469 --> 02:22:52,479
you know sense to anybody sitting here

3996
02:22:56,070 --> 02:22:54,479
looking at something fake but that's

3997
02:22:57,590 --> 02:22:56,080
what

3998
02:22:59,830 --> 02:22:57,600
you know

3999
02:23:00,870 --> 02:22:59,840
based on what i saw

4000
02:23:03,670 --> 02:23:00,880
um

4001
02:23:06,790 --> 02:23:03,680
when i saw this video i was like

4002
02:23:10,389 --> 02:23:07,910
there is

4003
02:23:11,830 --> 02:23:10,399
i you know i knew i wasn't crazy because

4004
02:23:13,190 --> 02:23:11,840
i knew there was two or three other guys

4005
02:23:15,910 --> 02:23:13,200
up on top of the ship that saw that with

4006
02:23:20,710 --> 02:23:17,590
and

4007
02:23:22,230 --> 02:23:20,720
for showing that video because i've seen

4008
02:23:24,230 --> 02:23:22,240
it and i and first time i saw it i

4009
02:23:25,830 --> 02:23:24,240
thought that's really interesting and

4010
02:23:27,830 --> 02:23:25,840
neither one of us know if it's real or

4011
02:23:29,270 --> 02:23:27,840
not but what are your opinions on the

4012
02:23:31,750 --> 02:23:29,280
phoenix lights

4013
02:23:35,030 --> 02:23:31,760
the belgium wave of

4014
02:23:36,469 --> 02:23:35,040
belgium was 89 i think and then hudson

4015
02:23:41,190 --> 02:23:36,479
valley

4016
02:23:43,349 --> 02:23:41,200
think you know phoenix lights

4017
02:23:44,710 --> 02:23:43,359
way too many people

4018
02:23:46,389 --> 02:23:44,720
credible people

4019
02:23:49,110 --> 02:23:46,399
and even some video footage

4020
02:23:51,429 --> 02:23:49,120
uh saw what happened uh

4021
02:23:54,630 --> 02:23:51,439
including uh kurt russell the actor who

4022
02:23:57,030 --> 02:23:54,640
was flying an airplane into the into uh

4023
02:23:59,349 --> 02:23:57,040
uh sky harbor international that that

4024
02:24:00,389 --> 02:23:59,359
evening and saw it and reported it

4025
02:24:04,870 --> 02:24:00,399
uh

4026
02:24:05,990 --> 02:24:04,880
interesting to me is the sheer scale of

4027
02:24:09,349 --> 02:24:06,000
the thing

4028
02:24:12,830 --> 02:24:09,359
it apparently was enormous now

4029
02:24:15,750 --> 02:24:12,840
if you the belgium wave to me case

4030
02:24:16,630 --> 02:24:15,760
closed uh i don't know what it was but

4031
02:24:19,590 --> 02:24:16,640
you know

4032
02:24:21,990 --> 02:24:19,600
uh there is not only corroborating radar

4033
02:24:23,429 --> 02:24:22,000
evidence uh from aircraft but also from

4034
02:24:25,910 --> 02:24:23,439
ground sites

4035
02:24:26,870 --> 02:24:25,920
the pilots never got eyes on

4036
02:24:29,510 --> 02:24:26,880
but

4037
02:24:31,670 --> 02:24:29,520
lots of jean darm or you know highway

4038
02:24:33,830 --> 02:24:31,680
patrolman type guys and regular

4039
02:24:35,830 --> 02:24:33,840
citizenry out out in the countryside saw

4040
02:24:37,830 --> 02:24:35,840
these things even including a retired

4041
02:24:40,150 --> 02:24:37,840
colonel and his wife

4042
02:24:41,429 --> 02:24:40,160
lots of again the sheer volume of

4043
02:24:43,990 --> 02:24:41,439
witnesses

4044
02:24:46,710 --> 02:24:44,000
uh testifies to to the fact that that

4045
02:24:48,309 --> 02:24:46,720
that that event really happened

4046
02:24:51,349 --> 02:24:48,319
what's interesting to me and the hudson

4047
02:24:53,110 --> 02:24:51,359
valley stuff if you've ever read uh

4048
02:24:54,469 --> 02:24:53,120
the guy that that contributed to the

4049
02:24:57,750 --> 02:24:54,479
ned's effort

4050
02:25:02,630 --> 02:25:00,070
uh he's got some

4051
02:25:03,670 --> 02:25:02,640
fascinating videos on his website

4052
02:25:05,190 --> 02:25:03,680
uh

4053
02:25:08,150 --> 02:25:05,200
this thing

4054
02:25:10,309 --> 02:25:08,160
could make itself appear as a triangle

4055
02:25:14,230 --> 02:25:10,319
it could make itself appear as a blacks

4056
02:25:15,830 --> 02:25:14,240
a black boeing 707 in broad daylight

4057
02:25:17,429 --> 02:25:15,840
uh

4058
02:25:19,429 --> 02:25:17,439
i could go on and on it's just

4059
02:25:22,710 --> 02:25:19,439
fascinating so i i just don't know if

4060
02:25:26,389 --> 02:25:22,720
they are related or not who knows

4061
02:25:28,230 --> 02:25:26,399
i do know that um

4062
02:25:29,910 --> 02:25:28,240
i have read

4063
02:25:31,590 --> 02:25:29,920
you know this this triangle like i was

4064
02:25:34,070 --> 02:25:31,600
showing the drawing of it right so if

4065
02:25:35,830 --> 02:25:34,080
you just going back to the discussion

4066
02:25:37,910 --> 02:25:35,840
about if you were going to make a

4067
02:25:40,790 --> 02:25:37,920
platform so number one if you have this

4068
02:25:41,830 --> 02:25:40,800
technology that can cancel

4069
02:25:46,550 --> 02:25:41,840
mass

4070
02:25:49,110 --> 02:25:46,560
percentage

4071
02:25:50,710 --> 02:25:49,120
remember fouche said it was 89 percent

4072
02:25:55,190 --> 02:25:50,720
well that's not a hundred

4073
02:25:59,429 --> 02:25:57,510
but if you've got this technology and

4074
02:26:01,510 --> 02:25:59,439
remember to ask me about the tom delong

4075
02:26:03,270 --> 02:26:01,520
video on the joe rogan show

4076
02:26:05,270 --> 02:26:03,280
because it relates to this oh the one

4077
02:26:07,349 --> 02:26:05,280
word just totally just like it gets

4078
02:26:09,349 --> 02:26:07,359
really bright and just disappears so i

4079
02:26:10,550 --> 02:26:09,359
saw that video too but let's i'll get to

4080
02:26:12,870 --> 02:26:10,560
that in a second

4081
02:26:14,469 --> 02:26:12,880
if you've got this technology

4082
02:26:15,590 --> 02:26:14,479
that you could put you could build a

4083
02:26:17,349 --> 02:26:15,600
platform

4084
02:26:19,349 --> 02:26:17,359
uh what's the optimized shape for

4085
02:26:21,750 --> 02:26:19,359
building a platform to carry something

4086
02:26:26,630 --> 02:26:21,760
it would probably be a triangle

4087
02:26:29,910 --> 02:26:28,950
if you can negate its mass

4088
02:26:31,429 --> 02:26:29,920
then

4089
02:26:34,070 --> 02:26:31,439
is there a limit to how big you could

4090
02:26:37,110 --> 02:26:34,080
make it really the limit is to how big

4091
02:26:38,790 --> 02:26:37,120
the facility is that you're storing it

4092
02:26:40,790 --> 02:26:38,800
where it's operating from

4093
02:26:42,150 --> 02:26:40,800
how big is the ramp

4094
02:26:43,670 --> 02:26:42,160
uh right

4095
02:26:45,349 --> 02:26:43,680
so

4096
02:26:46,950 --> 02:26:45,359
again fouche

4097
02:26:48,389 --> 02:26:46,960
for what it's worth

4098
02:26:50,309 --> 02:26:48,399
don't know if he's telling the truth or

4099
02:26:51,349 --> 02:26:50,319
not but he sure put it out there like he

4100
02:26:52,630 --> 02:26:51,359
was

4101
02:26:54,550 --> 02:26:52,640
um

4102
02:26:55,910 --> 02:26:54,560
he claimed that when he was at area 51

4103
02:26:58,550 --> 02:26:55,920
and he was wearing these blackout

4104
02:27:00,150 --> 02:26:58,560
goggles that obscure your vision if you

4105
02:27:02,630 --> 02:27:00,160
have to go from building to building you

4106
02:27:05,270 --> 02:27:02,640
can only see close enough see clearly

4107
02:27:06,550 --> 02:27:05,280
enough to see the colored lines on the

4108
02:27:08,950 --> 02:27:06,560
concrete

4109
02:27:10,150 --> 02:27:08,960
path below you and you according to your

4110
02:27:13,429 --> 02:27:10,160
badge

4111
02:27:15,510 --> 02:27:13,439
level can only go

4112
02:27:17,110 --> 02:27:15,520
on the colored lines that you're cleared

4113
02:27:19,110 --> 02:27:17,120
for and into only the buildings that

4114
02:27:21,510 --> 02:27:19,120
you're cleared for and he was wearing a

4115
02:27:24,150 --> 02:27:21,520
ball cap his air force ball cap he had

4116
02:27:26,389 --> 02:27:24,160
these goggles on but he was cheating by

4117
02:27:27,830 --> 02:27:26,399
pulling his goggles down a little bit

4118
02:27:29,270 --> 02:27:27,840
and he was looking over the top of his

4119
02:27:31,190 --> 02:27:29,280
goggles he said

4120
02:27:33,750 --> 02:27:31,200
but underneath his ball cap and he saw

4121
02:27:36,309 --> 02:27:33,760
this he saw down the side of this

4122
02:27:38,550 --> 02:27:36,319
triangle sitting on the ramp

4123
02:27:41,670 --> 02:27:38,560
and i forget that he it was i thought he

4124
02:27:42,870 --> 02:27:41,680
said hundreds of feet long just one side

4125
02:27:46,070 --> 02:27:42,880
of it

4126
02:27:48,309 --> 02:27:46,080
so if you've got technology capable of

4127
02:27:50,230 --> 02:27:48,319
that capable of both

4128
02:27:51,670 --> 02:27:50,240
canceling mass

4129
02:27:54,150 --> 02:27:51,680
and then you've got to have some other

4130
02:27:56,469 --> 02:27:54,160
kind of technology to make it go you

4131
02:27:58,469 --> 02:27:56,479
know for vector control or propulsion

4132
02:28:00,070 --> 02:27:58,479
directional propulsion

4133
02:28:02,309 --> 02:28:00,080
then

4134
02:28:03,910 --> 02:28:02,319
size is not really a huge concern other

4135
02:28:06,070 --> 02:28:03,920
than the facilities where you got to

4136
02:28:08,150 --> 02:28:06,080
store it and all of that you could make

4137
02:28:11,110 --> 02:28:08,160
one big enough to carry other carry

4138
02:28:12,710 --> 02:28:11,120
troops carry tons and tons and tons and

4139
02:28:14,309 --> 02:28:12,720
tons of cargo

4140
02:28:16,070 --> 02:28:14,319
equipment whatever

4141
02:28:19,830 --> 02:28:16,080
um

4142
02:28:21,670 --> 02:28:19,840
if you go to the and the other v so so

4143
02:28:23,429 --> 02:28:21,680
that video that i saw about 2014 the one

4144
02:28:27,510 --> 02:28:23,439
that we had on the screen a minute ago

4145
02:28:33,030 --> 02:28:30,630
that video that tom delong had

4146
02:28:34,710 --> 02:28:33,040
had played on the joe rogan show which

4147
02:28:38,230 --> 02:28:34,720
he gets slammed for because people are

4148
02:28:40,389 --> 02:28:38,240
like that is 100 an obvious

4149
02:28:42,469 --> 02:28:40,399
fraud and ignore the dog because it does

4150
02:28:44,790 --> 02:28:42,479
is it really okay but there are so there

4151
02:28:46,309 --> 02:28:44,800
are some interesting little details

4152
02:28:49,349 --> 02:28:46,319
in that video though

4153
02:28:50,469 --> 02:28:49,359
that um if you've watched a spacex

4154
02:28:52,550 --> 02:28:50,479
launch

4155
02:28:54,389 --> 02:28:52,560
and you've seen these uh as these

4156
02:28:57,750 --> 02:28:54,399
boosters are coming back

4157
02:29:00,070 --> 02:28:57,760
uh to land after after a launch you'll

4158
02:29:01,910 --> 02:29:00,080
see these cold gas thrusters that are

4159
02:29:03,990 --> 02:29:01,920
firing

4160
02:29:07,190 --> 02:29:04,000
it's high pressure cold gas i don't know

4161
02:29:11,030 --> 02:29:09,110
it could be liquid oxygen liquid

4162
02:29:13,990 --> 02:29:11,040
nitrogen that's under extremely high

4163
02:29:16,950 --> 02:29:14,000
pressure and they're shooting jets of it

4164
02:29:18,469 --> 02:29:16,960
it's impulses that they're firing that

4165
02:29:21,429 --> 02:29:18,479
keep this

4166
02:29:23,429 --> 02:29:21,439
this booster body falling in a straight

4167
02:29:25,110 --> 02:29:23,439
and normal attitude until it gets down

4168
02:29:27,590 --> 02:29:25,120
low enough to fire its engines and

4169
02:29:29,670 --> 02:29:27,600
cushion its own landing right

4170
02:29:31,510 --> 02:29:29,680
if you watch that video

4171
02:29:32,790 --> 02:29:31,520
that i'm talking about that tom de long

4172
02:29:34,389 --> 02:29:32,800
showed

4173
02:29:37,190 --> 02:29:34,399
i think it's supposed to be at night

4174
02:29:38,710 --> 02:29:37,200
time over paris but anonymous i don't

4175
02:29:40,870 --> 02:29:38,720
remember

4176
02:29:42,630 --> 02:29:40,880
but if you watch that vehicle rotate

4177
02:29:43,910 --> 02:29:42,640
after it comes into pretty close view

4178
02:29:46,150 --> 02:29:43,920
and it's really annoying because the

4179
02:29:48,150 --> 02:29:46,160
camera operator is kind of going in and

4180
02:29:52,389 --> 02:29:48,160
out of focus

4181
02:29:54,870 --> 02:29:52,399
but at a point there like on the jre

4182
02:29:57,270 --> 02:29:54,880
de long says at one point look there's a

4183
02:30:00,150 --> 02:29:57,280
cockpit there's a there's a pilot in

4184
02:30:02,230 --> 02:30:00,160
that thing or some words to that effect

4185
02:30:04,389 --> 02:30:02,240
right around that same time around the

4186
02:30:06,550 --> 02:30:04,399
leading front edge

4187
02:30:08,630 --> 02:30:06,560
i think it is of that vehicle as it's

4188
02:30:11,110 --> 02:30:08,640
rotating while it's hovering

4189
02:30:12,710 --> 02:30:11,120
you will see some what i think are cold

4190
02:30:13,830 --> 02:30:12,720
gas thrusters

4191
02:30:16,150 --> 02:30:13,840
firing

4192
02:30:19,830 --> 02:30:16,160
that when they fire this thing is

4193
02:30:22,150 --> 02:30:19,840
rotating and when they fire it stops

4194
02:30:24,070 --> 02:30:22,160
that's what coal gas thrusters are doing

4195
02:30:25,830 --> 02:30:24,080
on the spacex boosters they're for

4196
02:30:27,910 --> 02:30:25,840
attitude control

4197
02:30:29,110 --> 02:30:27,920
left right you know roll pitch and yaw

4198
02:30:31,270 --> 02:30:29,120
control

4199
02:30:33,349 --> 02:30:31,280
and that's what i see

4200
02:30:36,469 --> 02:30:33,359
when i watch that video and that's a

4201
02:30:39,670 --> 02:30:36,479
level of detail that if it's fake

4202
02:30:41,910 --> 02:30:39,680
somebody went somebody with some pretty

4203
02:30:44,070 --> 02:30:41,920
deep knowledge all the way back to 20

4204
02:30:45,590 --> 02:30:44,080
whenever that was that video hit the hit

4205
02:30:47,349 --> 02:30:45,600
the internet

4206
02:30:49,429 --> 02:30:47,359
um

4207
02:30:51,429 --> 02:30:49,439
that's a pretty innovative little detail

4208
02:30:53,110 --> 02:30:51,439
to add to that video

4209
02:30:55,030 --> 02:30:53,120
but

4210
02:30:56,630 --> 02:30:55,040
that's that's all this gets kind of into

4211
02:30:58,550 --> 02:30:56,640
a separate topic about tom delonge and

4212
02:30:59,670 --> 02:30:58,560
whether i believe everything he says or

4213
02:31:01,670 --> 02:30:59,680
not but

4214
02:31:06,710 --> 02:31:01,680
yeah we'll have to attack we'll do that

4215
02:31:11,510 --> 02:31:07,590
and

4216
02:31:13,349 --> 02:31:11,520
i mean i think oh oh before i forget

4217
02:31:16,230 --> 02:31:13,359
david who i don't know if he missed the

4218
02:31:18,309 --> 02:31:16,240
beginning but he asks the main reason

4219
02:31:20,790 --> 02:31:18,319
reason you think your triangle was human

4220
02:31:24,550 --> 02:31:23,429
because of where it

4221
02:31:26,469 --> 02:31:24,560
was

4222
02:31:28,870 --> 02:31:26,479
it flew directly over some of the most

4223
02:31:30,309 --> 02:31:28,880
sensitive air space in the world right

4224
02:31:31,429 --> 02:31:30,319
over the top of the united states

4225
02:31:33,110 --> 02:31:31,439
aircraft

4226
02:31:35,670 --> 02:31:33,120
carrier battle group

4227
02:31:37,429 --> 02:31:35,680
and they they didn't even

4228
02:31:38,389 --> 02:31:37,439
it's like they knew it was there someone

4229
02:31:42,389 --> 02:31:38,399
did

4230
02:31:45,990 --> 02:31:42,399
jets to go up and look at it

4231
02:31:50,389 --> 02:31:48,790
and and it appeared to me i i can't know

4232
02:31:52,870 --> 02:31:50,399
this for it just because i'd been out

4233
02:31:55,750 --> 02:31:52,880
there so much in the gulf and i'd seen

4234
02:31:59,190 --> 02:31:55,760
other aircraft that had taken off from

4235
02:32:02,469 --> 02:31:59,200
uh airfields in in nearby countries

4236
02:32:04,230 --> 02:32:02,479
that uh seemed to be on an ascending

4237
02:32:05,670 --> 02:32:04,240
uh flight path in other words climbing

4238
02:32:06,389 --> 02:32:05,680
at altitude

4239
02:32:08,150 --> 02:32:06,399
it

4240
02:32:10,550 --> 02:32:08,160
my impression was that this thing wasn't

4241
02:32:14,469 --> 02:32:10,560
flying straight and level that it was

4242
02:32:16,150 --> 02:32:14,479
climbing slightly but you know that

4243
02:32:19,590 --> 02:32:16,160
there was no way for me to gauge exact

4244
02:32:22,830 --> 02:32:19,600
altitude i could only gauge

4245
02:32:27,190 --> 02:32:22,840
apparent estimated altitude estimated

4246
02:32:32,389 --> 02:32:28,870
so

4247
02:32:34,710 --> 02:32:32,399
the fact that it overflow

4248
02:32:36,550 --> 02:32:34,720
such a sensitive

4249
02:32:39,750 --> 02:32:36,560
activity

4250
02:32:41,429 --> 02:32:39,760
and the carrier uh didn't do anything

4251
02:32:43,349 --> 02:32:41,439
about it

4252
02:32:44,950 --> 02:32:43,359
you know there's however many fighter

4253
02:32:47,750 --> 02:32:44,960
squadrons on that carrier and in the

4254
02:32:49,670 --> 02:32:47,760
persian gulf there are always

4255
02:32:52,710 --> 02:32:49,680
there there's there's a situation on an

4256
02:32:55,349 --> 02:32:52,720
aircraft carrier in a hot zone meaning a

4257
02:32:56,710 --> 02:32:55,359
high tension area of the world regional

4258
02:33:00,710 --> 02:32:56,720
conflict is

4259
02:33:03,990 --> 02:33:02,309
any aircraft carrier that goes into the

4260
02:33:06,389 --> 02:33:04,000
persian gulf

4261
02:33:08,389 --> 02:33:06,399
unless it's in port

4262
02:33:10,070 --> 02:33:08,399
is going to have

4263
02:33:11,030 --> 02:33:10,080
what they call it that may be the ready

4264
02:33:13,510 --> 02:33:11,040
five

4265
02:33:16,070 --> 02:33:13,520
or the ready 10 or the ready 15

4266
02:33:18,309 --> 02:33:16,080
they're going to have alert jets sitting

4267
02:33:20,710 --> 02:33:18,319
and a pilot will be sitting

4268
02:33:23,429 --> 02:33:20,720
in the cockpit of that jet

4269
02:33:25,590 --> 02:33:23,439
no kidding with maybe a sombrero or a

4270
02:33:27,990 --> 02:33:25,600
straw hat or something he's sitting in

4271
02:33:31,030 --> 02:33:28,000
the jet the jet is sitting

4272
02:33:34,150 --> 02:33:31,040
ready to be fired up and taxi just a few

4273
02:33:37,590 --> 02:33:34,160
feet to the catapult to be launched on a

4274
02:33:39,110 --> 02:33:37,600
moment's notice and the ready 5 10 15 is

4275
02:33:40,870 --> 02:33:39,120
just a different status based on the

4276
02:33:43,190 --> 02:33:40,880
current threat environment

4277
02:33:44,710 --> 02:33:43,200
uh it's it's a minutes thing they got to

4278
02:33:47,030 --> 02:33:44,720
be ready in five or they got to launch

4279
02:33:49,750 --> 02:33:47,040
in 10 or they got to be able to

4280
02:33:51,670 --> 02:33:49,760
you know start engines taxi app get the

4281
02:33:54,389 --> 02:33:51,680
catapult and launch in 15 minutes

4282
02:33:56,070 --> 02:33:54,399
whatever it depends on how they perceive

4283
02:33:57,590 --> 02:33:56,080
the threat environment

4284
02:33:59,990 --> 02:33:57,600
and

4285
02:34:01,670 --> 02:34:00,000
they don't

4286
02:34:03,429 --> 02:34:01,680
there's a great on uh on

4287
02:34:05,429 --> 02:34:03,439
fightersweep.com

4288
02:34:07,190 --> 02:34:05,439
there's a really good story

4289
02:34:09,830 --> 02:34:07,200
from a few years ago

4290
02:34:12,309 --> 02:34:09,840
of an f-18 pilot sitting on the deck of

4291
02:34:14,550 --> 02:34:12,319
an aircraft carrier in the persian gulf

4292
02:34:16,230 --> 02:34:14,560
he's sitting the alert fighter

4293
02:34:17,990 --> 02:34:16,240
he's sitting in there he's got his

4294
02:34:19,349 --> 02:34:18,000
walkman in

4295
02:34:22,309 --> 02:34:19,359
it's hot

4296
02:34:24,710 --> 02:34:22,319
he's he's sweating like hell

4297
02:34:27,910 --> 02:34:24,720
and all of a sudden they detect

4298
02:34:31,990 --> 02:34:27,920
the iranians are sending out two

4299
02:34:33,429 --> 02:34:32,000
uh i think it's two sukhoi su-25s

4300
02:34:36,230 --> 02:34:33,439
and instead of

4301
02:34:37,510 --> 02:34:36,240
you know doing a friendly pass a half

4302
02:34:39,270 --> 02:34:37,520
mile away

4303
02:34:40,469 --> 02:34:39,280
these things are bearing down on this

4304
02:34:41,590 --> 02:34:40,479
carrier

4305
02:34:46,230 --> 02:34:41,600
moving

4306
02:34:48,230 --> 02:34:46,240
and he barely gets launched in time he

4307
02:34:50,070 --> 02:34:48,240
comes off the deck and gets his landing

4308
02:34:52,790 --> 02:34:50,080
gear up in the wells

4309
02:34:54,230 --> 02:34:52,800
and immediately they're already there

4310
02:34:56,469 --> 02:34:54,240
they they're he's launching they're

4311
02:34:58,950 --> 02:34:56,479
coming towards him he's launching off

4312
02:35:01,030 --> 02:34:58,960
the deck towards them somebody didn't

4313
02:35:03,429 --> 02:35:01,040
catch them in time on radar i guess

4314
02:35:05,830 --> 02:35:03,439
that's what the story is all about and

4315
02:35:08,150 --> 02:35:05,840
he launches and has to pull this thing

4316
02:35:11,030 --> 02:35:08,160
into a tight turn and get right up on

4317
02:35:13,110 --> 02:35:11,040
these guys but they're already all over

4318
02:35:15,030 --> 02:35:13,120
that carrier

4319
02:35:16,710 --> 02:35:15,040
so it was sort of a sloppy job by the

4320
02:35:19,190 --> 02:35:16,720
radar protection for the battle group

4321
02:35:20,150 --> 02:35:19,200
that day that they let these two iranian

4322
02:35:24,309 --> 02:35:20,160
jets

4323
02:35:26,150 --> 02:35:24,319
they let them get right on top of that

4324
02:35:27,190 --> 02:35:26,160
carrier and if they'd wanted to do

4325
02:35:29,590 --> 02:35:27,200
damage

4326
02:35:32,469 --> 02:35:29,600
it was just a little too late

4327
02:35:35,110 --> 02:35:32,479
when he got launched but the point is is

4328
02:35:37,990 --> 02:35:35,120
that he was there to launch and he did

4329
02:35:39,670 --> 02:35:38,000
just like that day that i was on

4330
02:35:41,750 --> 02:35:39,680
the mobile bay right next to the

4331
02:35:43,750 --> 02:35:41,760
independence she would have had there

4332
02:35:44,710 --> 02:35:43,760
were no flight ops going on at the

4333
02:35:46,790 --> 02:35:44,720
moment

4334
02:35:48,870 --> 02:35:46,800
but there would have been somebody

4335
02:35:51,750 --> 02:35:48,880
sitting in an alert jet

4336
02:35:53,190 --> 02:35:51,760
up on that deck but now i'm down so

4337
02:35:54,870 --> 02:35:53,200
i'm not you know that's 80 feet up off

4338
02:35:56,469 --> 02:35:54,880
the water the flight deck

4339
02:35:59,590 --> 02:35:56,479
i'm only 100 and something feet from

4340
02:36:01,349 --> 02:35:59,600
this carrier i couldn't see

4341
02:36:03,750 --> 02:36:01,359
anything but the tails of the jet i

4342
02:36:05,670 --> 02:36:03,760
couldn't see the guy sitting in there

4343
02:36:08,230 --> 02:36:05,680
i just know from being on aircraft

4344
02:36:09,990 --> 02:36:08,240
carriers in the persian gulf they almost

4345
02:36:11,270 --> 02:36:10,000
always have guys sitting in the alert

4346
02:36:13,910 --> 02:36:11,280
fighter jets

4347
02:36:16,150 --> 02:36:13,920
and nobody twitched

4348
02:36:18,630 --> 02:36:16,160
nobody twitched nothing

4349
02:36:20,790 --> 02:36:18,640
extraordinary happened except that

4350
02:36:23,349 --> 02:36:20,800
emergency breakaway which could have

4351
02:36:25,349 --> 02:36:23,359
been just a real drill they wanted to do

4352
02:36:26,630 --> 02:36:25,359
it then and they figured that was a good

4353
02:36:28,469 --> 02:36:26,640
time to do it

4354
02:36:30,070 --> 02:36:28,479
or it was done to distract everybody

4355
02:36:33,429 --> 02:36:30,080
while this thing flew over

4356
02:36:37,429 --> 02:36:35,270
we'll get to two quick questions i don't

4357
02:36:38,950 --> 02:36:37,439
know if you know anything about this

4358
02:36:41,510 --> 02:36:38,960
you have any idea about the total power

4359
02:36:43,110 --> 02:36:41,520
loss on the uss kid

4360
02:36:45,429 --> 02:36:43,120
to the north of new zealand a couple of

4361
02:36:46,790 --> 02:36:45,439
years ago

4362
02:36:49,030 --> 02:36:46,800
never heard of

4363
02:36:50,790 --> 02:36:49,040
and here's another one is it possible

4364
02:36:53,030 --> 02:36:50,800
the radar on the aircraft carry was

4365
02:36:55,670 --> 02:36:53,040
remotely set to ignore the craft that

4366
02:36:59,990 --> 02:36:57,190
well that's i don't know i don't know

4367
02:37:02,150 --> 02:37:00,000
the answer that i know that i looked on

4368
02:37:04,469 --> 02:37:02,160
on my ship which has an infinitely more

4369
02:37:06,070 --> 02:37:04,479
powerful more capable radar the ship

4370
02:37:07,750 --> 02:37:06,080
that i was on

4371
02:37:09,429 --> 02:37:07,760
than the one that's on the carrier next

4372
02:37:10,550 --> 02:37:09,439
to us as a matter of fact the carrier

4373
02:37:13,750 --> 02:37:10,560
next to us

4374
02:37:16,230 --> 02:37:13,760
depends on my ship for for uh

4375
02:37:20,950 --> 02:37:16,240
anti-air

4376
02:37:22,790 --> 02:37:20,960
that's what the rest of the battlegroup

4377
02:37:24,710 --> 02:37:22,800
is out there to do is to support and

4378
02:37:27,110 --> 02:37:24,720
protect the carrier

4379
02:37:29,349 --> 02:37:27,120
i went back down to my work center

4380
02:37:30,550 --> 02:37:29,359
in less than five minutes after seeing

4381
02:37:34,710 --> 02:37:30,560
that

4382
02:37:37,110 --> 02:37:34,720
whatever maybe 350

4383
02:37:38,550 --> 02:37:37,120
plus miles an hour it wasn't going mach

4384
02:37:39,830 --> 02:37:38,560
1.

4385
02:37:41,590 --> 02:37:39,840
um

4386
02:37:44,710 --> 02:37:41,600
and it should have still given the

4387
02:37:45,750 --> 02:37:44,720
capability of the radar on on on the

4388
02:37:48,230 --> 02:37:45,760
aegis

4389
02:37:50,070 --> 02:37:48,240
cruiser

4390
02:37:52,070 --> 02:37:50,080
it had not been going fast enough to to

4391
02:37:54,309 --> 02:37:52,080
have gotten out of radar range in five

4392
02:37:57,190 --> 02:37:54,319
minutes

4393
02:37:58,070 --> 02:37:57,200
okay over over open ocean with a with a

4394
02:37:59,670 --> 02:37:58,080
with a

4395
02:38:01,990 --> 02:37:59,680
you know a long horizon nothing

4396
02:38:04,309 --> 02:38:02,000
obstructing the radar

4397
02:38:07,030 --> 02:38:04,319
um it should have still been unless it

4398
02:38:08,630 --> 02:38:07,040
was a low observable craft which is very

4399
02:38:10,630 --> 02:38:08,640
highly plausible

4400
02:38:11,990 --> 02:38:10,640
um could it have flown over and nobody

4401
02:38:16,870 --> 02:38:12,000
was

4402
02:38:18,630 --> 02:38:16,880
just two or three or four of us saw it

4403
02:38:21,510 --> 02:38:18,640
i don't i

4404
02:38:23,510 --> 02:38:21,520
that that means that

4405
02:38:25,030 --> 02:38:23,520
as has been the case that we've been

4406
02:38:27,590 --> 02:38:25,040
hearing about

4407
02:38:29,510 --> 02:38:27,600
that that this thing got overflown by

4408
02:38:31,910 --> 02:38:29,520
an unknown object

4409
02:38:34,230 --> 02:38:31,920
that's not a nuclear carrier though

4410
02:38:35,830 --> 02:38:34,240
the uss independence is not a nuclear

4411
02:38:37,349 --> 02:38:35,840
carrier it's long since been

4412
02:38:39,670 --> 02:38:37,359
decommissioned

4413
02:38:42,950 --> 02:38:39,680
um did the did the independents have

4414
02:38:44,870 --> 02:38:42,960
nuclear weapons on board

4415
02:38:47,510 --> 02:38:44,880
that's that would be a classified fact

4416
02:38:49,030 --> 02:38:47,520
and i i wouldn't know that i wouldn't be

4417
02:38:50,469 --> 02:38:49,040
surprised but

4418
02:38:51,750 --> 02:38:50,479
i think that's very tightly held

4419
02:38:53,910 --> 02:38:51,760
information

4420
02:38:56,389 --> 02:38:53,920
my guess is that all the carriers

4421
02:38:58,630 --> 02:38:56,399
probably do

4422
02:39:00,550 --> 02:38:58,640
just in case they need them

4423
02:39:02,950 --> 02:39:00,560
and michael i think we're going to end

4424
02:39:05,590 --> 02:39:02,960
it here but

4425
02:39:07,110 --> 02:39:05,600
tomorrow there is possibly new

4426
02:39:08,830 --> 02:39:07,120
information

4427
02:39:12,070 --> 02:39:08,840
about the wilson davis

4428
02:39:15,429 --> 02:39:12,080
notes and hopefully tomorrow

4429
02:39:17,590 --> 02:39:15,439
not me but somebody else will be

4430
02:39:20,790 --> 02:39:17,600
putting out some interesting information

4431
02:39:23,190 --> 02:39:20,800
and that i had a small tiny part in

4432
02:39:25,270 --> 02:39:23,200
so look forward to that tomorrow

4433
02:39:26,230 --> 02:39:25,280
it's not a blockbuster but i think you

4434
02:39:27,670 --> 02:39:26,240
know what i'm talking about we've

4435
02:39:29,429 --> 02:39:27,680
discussed it but i'll tell you off air

4436
02:39:30,389 --> 02:39:29,439
and hopefully people can see it tomorrow

4437
02:39:32,070 --> 02:39:30,399
if it comes

4438
02:39:33,190 --> 02:39:32,080
comes through and i just want to thank

4439
02:39:34,710 --> 02:39:33,200
you for

4440
02:39:36,150 --> 02:39:34,720
being here it's been great and we'll

4441
02:39:38,630 --> 02:39:36,160
definitely do it again as long as you

4442
02:39:39,590 --> 02:39:38,640
like uh we'll get more questions next

4443
02:39:42,309 --> 02:39:39,600
time and

4444
02:39:43,990 --> 02:39:42,319
it's been great i mean i love having you

4445
02:39:46,230 --> 02:39:44,000
my pleasure

4446
02:39:47,750 --> 02:39:46,240
and uh thanks for having me yeah no

4447
02:39:49,429 --> 02:39:47,760
problem enjoy the rest of the day and i

4448
02:39:51,429 --> 02:39:49,439
will talk to you soon

4449
02:39:52,870 --> 02:39:51,439
all right take care joe see ya see

4450
02:39:54,870 --> 02:39:52,880
everyone